I was wondering...

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Atreides
Dyson Forest
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I was wondering...

#1 Post by Atreides »

What if one lost around 200 PP when a very expensive building that was near completion was lost as the planet rebelled and went independent.

Seeing as this may be somewhat logical because of the way the program transfers planets on one hand, and independence on the other hand; but that this behaviour isn't documented anywhere, and as such can't be said to have been entirely predictable, what would be the consensus on what to do about this situation?

BlueAward
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Re: I was wondering...

#2 Post by BlueAward »

What exactly is unexpected there? I mean planet rebelling may be a surprising, not well documented feature, and may take you by surprise, however it is a normal mechanic. Or is the lost production upon rebellion that you find unexpected?

If someone conquers your planet, you lose access to it, that includes when rebels are the ones conquering

What if the building was completed, would you consider this a loss of production that was somehow unwarranted? What if that was another player and they scrapped the stuff on purpose, knowing they can't hold the planet but wanted to destroy your valuable building?

What happens if you reconquer the planet? I'd prolly expect you get the partially completed building back unless it was like an IRA that now becomes too close to another IRA you've built close by in the meantime.

At least when invading other empires planets, you get their unfinished stuff into your queue. Not sure what of planet going native

Ophiuchus
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Re: I was wondering...

#3 Post by Ophiuchus »

BlueAward wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:00 am Not sure what of planet going native
This was never well defined as far as i know. But speaking backend-wise neutral is not really an empire, and AFAIK it does not have a build queue. So it seems build queue items go to nirvana.

For consistency, it makes sense that whatever happens on invasion also happens on rebellion and that however neutrals treat buildings also happens to build queue items.
So if buildings and build queue items get transferred on invasion, I think this should also happen on rebellion.
If rebellion scraps the buldings, the build queue items should also be transferred removed.

OTOH rebellion is not invasion, so it could also do something different.

Also it should be consistent with the other way for an empire planet to become neutral: the independence decree. I would guess that SetOwner does not (yet?) transfer build item ownership.

Not sure adding a neutral build queue just for consistency though is worth it.
Last edited by Ophiuchus on Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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BlueAward
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Re: I was wondering...

#4 Post by BlueAward »

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:11 am
BlueAward wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:00 am Not sure what of planet going native
This was never well defined as far as i know. But speaking backend-wise neutral is not really an empire, and AFAIK it does not have a build queue. So it seems build queue items go to nirvana.
huh, maybe it could stay in your queue until you or somebody else conquers the planet, or you remove from your queue. But I think I don't mind losing stuff like that personally, tough love.

At least with experimentor monsters destroying outposts, the unfinished buildings would stay in my queue, to be finished when re-outposting the planet. Though it might have changed. The stuff stayed in queue even if the planet was literally destroyed so there would be no way to continue the building... and there was a fix around that - not sure if it impacted the former case, where planet would stay to be reoutpostable

Ophiuchus
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Re: I was wondering...

#5 Post by Ophiuchus »

note @blueaward, i expanded/edited my post while you were posting
BlueAward wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:22 am huh, maybe it could stay in your queue until you or somebody else conquers the planet, or you remove from your queue. But I think I don't mind losing stuff like that personally, tough love.
that was the way before recent changes for all invasion; not sure where there is discussion for the main reasons, would be great if somebody could dig it up.
If it only happens if the new owner is neutral, feels a bit weird to me. This one should be easy implement in backend though.
BlueAward wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:22 am The stuff stayed in queue even if the planet was literally destroyed so there would be no way to continue the building...
i think geoff fixed this not long ago by automatic removal of queue items if the planet does not exist. this case does not only exist with experimentors/neutrals, so it needs handling anyway. either keep the stuff in the queue so one can remove manually in order to know what one lost; or by automatic removal (which I prefer)
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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