Multiple copies of flux lance

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BlueAward
Vacuum Dragon
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:15 am

Multiple copies of flux lance

#1 Post by BlueAward »

In MP23 I've noticed that you seemingly can build ships with multiple flux lances. I haven't "exploited" that, even though I was tempted to have a shot at some ships, for the WTF (what's that factor). I did confirm it just now in single player though, for that version we used for MP23

I somehow like it that way but dunno presumably it is imbalanced that way, I have not looked at costs etc and there must have been a reason why it used to be blocked from having multiple copies (and the description still says so).

Something like base hull, small robotic hull maybe could use that, and probably best use would be camo asteroid which would make it comparable in armor to small asteroid but with slightly more oomph. Especially with charge which works for flux lance even for "slow" ships, but that is another story. People are probably used to it by now that charge boosts lances even on slow ships

I haven't checked on latest build maybe that's fixed already, but even so, wanted to get some insights if actually allowing multiple copies would be OK or imba

EDIT: I mean, it's like getting a mini version of arc disruptor but it works only from turn 2 under charge (or fighters right away) and never upgrades, but is cheaper, though probably the cost is too favorable for chaff-ish ships so it may be imbalanced; so maybe if people like using multiple flux lances then it should have some cascading cost with each part added to offset costs required to beat some made up physics

wobbly
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 1880
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#2 Post by wobbly »

Yeah my memory is only 1 allowed, not sure what changed or whether its deliberate.

My loose opinion is allow multiples and maybe bump the cost up from 4 to 6. I actually feel they are a little cheap independent of how many you can use.

wobbly
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#3 Post by wobbly »

I can confirm that you can build a ship with 2 flux lances and I doubt this is intentional.

Note the exclusions:

Code: Select all

Part
    name = "SR_FLUX_LANCE"
    description = "SR_FLUX_LANCE_DESC"
    exclusions = [
      "SR_FLUX_LANCE"
    ]

wobbly
Cosmic Dragon
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#4 Post by wobbly »

Yep, there is something broken in exclusions in release v0.5. Not sure about master:
blahblahblah.png
blahblahblah.png (150.45 KiB) Viewed 1792 times

wobbly
Cosmic Dragon
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#5 Post by wobbly »

Bug seems to only happen with identical parts:
Attachments
cannot.png
cannot.png (158.38 KiB) Viewed 1790 times
can.png
can.png (156.41 KiB) Viewed 1790 times

BlueAward
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#6 Post by BlueAward »

wobbly wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 4:07 pm Bug seems to only happen with identical parts:
Wow. Come to think about it I think I saw it with stealth parts as well but I think scripting guards from it and only counts most powerful part or something. Dunno haven't looked deeper

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LienRag
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#7 Post by LienRag »

BlueAward wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 7:33 am People are probably used to it by now that charge boosts lances even on slow ships
Actually I never noticed this before you mentioned it.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#8 Post by Ophiuchus »

wobbly wrote: Fri May 19, 2023 3:51 pm I can confirm that you can build a ship with 2 flux lances and I doubt this is intentional.
yes, thats a bug.

the balance reason for having only 1 flux per ship is mainly the base hull.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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LienRag
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#9 Post by LienRag »

Do Nebulas' stealth also combine ?

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LienRag
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#10 Post by LienRag »

I ask this because on a test game (see below - note that it's not a zip file, I just changed the extension) I have a planet, Nenning, which is at the intersection of two Nebulas.
I have Active Radar but yet I can't Outpost it.
When I turn while having Nenning selected, I see briefly the "outpost" button, and then it disappears.
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bug outpost.zip
(323.82 KiB) Downloaded 68 times

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LienRag
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#11 Post by LienRag »

Actually I brought a Frigate there and the turn it arrive, it attacked the Ancient Guardian planet, then the turns after that it did not.

And then later I found a Derelict Scout at Asteri, and was able to outpost the planet.

wobbly
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#12 Post by wobbly »

If I wanted to know the answer to these questions, I'd possibly ask the player with the game window open what the stealth meter on the planet says, and whether there are 2 accounting labels for nebula. They'd possibly reply that there was no accounting label for nebula. After all nebula are scripted to only effect ships, not planets (ion storms do stealth planets however, inconsistent?). Then I might ask them whether they were playing Etty and whether the frigate has a detection range of 0 inside a nebula.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#13 Post by Geoff the Medio »

wobbly wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:02 amAfter all nebula are scripted to only effect ships, not planets
https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... xt#L47-L57

wobbly
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#14 Post by wobbly »

Nebula.png
Nebula.png (55.9 KiB) Viewed 1600 times
Ion Storm.png
Ion Storm.png (58.81 KiB) Viewed 1600 times
So for Ion Storm it says "all objects", that's fine.

For Nebula it explicitly says: "Ship Speed". It's arguable whether it says:

Ship (Speed, Detection Range and Stealth) or
(Ship Speed), Detection Range and Stealth

I'll leave it up to others whether that needs to be clarified. Though I will say that I only know Nebulas don't effect planets by looking at a planet and seeing it wasn't stealthed.

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LienRag
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Re: Multiple copies of flux lance

#15 Post by LienRag »

You were right, it was the Outpost Ship's reduction of Detection range by both the Nebula and Stellar interference, silly me.

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