Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#121 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 8:21 am 1 thing I noticed when charge policy was added is it shifted the balance towards the symbiots/statics that sit at 100uu base. This policy is pretty OP, particularly on a carrier and I've been wondering how to balance it ever since it entered the game.

An idea I just thought of is to move that sweet spot to 120uu, which would be energy hull base speed. Benefits:
  • give energy hull (the never used line) a boost
  • restore old balance with robotics/organics
  • give more benefit for the 1st speed part in an organic, or 2nd in a flux/self-grav
  • more tactical dynamics with traffic control/lighthouse
I'm not sure what others think about charge? Perhaps deserves some discussion, in its own thread?
I'm all in for the change you've described here.

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#122 Post by BlueAward »

Oberlus wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 9:21 am
wobbly wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 8:21 am 1 thing I noticed when charge policy was added is it shifted the balance towards the symbiots/statics that sit at 100uu base. This policy is pretty OP, particularly on a carrier and I've been wondering how to balance it ever since it entered the game.

An idea I just thought of is to move that sweet spot to 120uu, which would be energy hull base speed. Benefits:
  • give energy hull (the never used line) a boost
  • restore old balance with robotics/organics
  • give more benefit for the 1st speed part in an organic, or 2nd in a flux/self-grav
  • more tactical dynamics with traffic control/lighthouse
I'm not sure what others think about charge? Perhaps deserves some discussion, in its own thread?
I'm all in for the change you've described here.
Yeah charge is a no brainer for me tbh and it would stir the pot in right way I think. Though I would look on spatial flux lance that apparently is affected even for slower ships (and shields should also not be lowered for slower ships but tbh dunno how it works now). Or maybe tier so some effects are for 100uu too. I have cognitive dissonance anyway that flux lance works under charge for slower ships (haven't checked shields)

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#123 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 7:53 am The balance between robotic hull and the early organic hulls (symbiotic, static) is close to good, but I think organics are mostly superior.
That's weird, because I always played Organic (I love the fluff) and from the forum discussions I gathered that Robotics were the only Hull line that was actually viable.


wobbly wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 8:21 am 1 thing I noticed when charge policy was added is it shifted the balance towards the symbiots/statics that sit at 100uu base. This policy is pretty OP, particularly on a carrier and I've been wondering how to balance it ever since it entered the game.

An idea I just thought of is to move that sweet spot to 120uu, which would be energy hull base speed. Benefits:
  • give energy hull (the never used line) a boost
  • restore old balance with robotics/organics
  • give more benefit for the 1st speed part in an organic, or 2nd in a flux/self-grav
  • more tactical dynamics with traffic control/lighthouse
I'm not sure what others think about charge? Perhaps deserves some discussion, in its own thread?
I'm all for diversity but getting back to a situation where Robotics rule isn't necessarily the way to go.
I'd say that if you move Charge bonus to 120 uu, then maybe remove the Shield penalty ?
120 speed is not the default for any fleet composition (when 100 clearly was) so just costing one Policy is already a balance factor.

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#124 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:30 am That's weird, because I always played Organic (I love the fluff) and from the forum discussions I gathered that Robotics were the only Hull line that was actually viable.
In this forum?
I doubt it.

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#125 Post by o01eg »

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#126 Post by wobbly »

LienRag wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:30 am That's weird, because I always played Organic (I love the fluff) and from the forum discussions I gathered that Robotics were the only Hull line that was actually viable.
LienRag wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:30 am I'm all for diversity but getting back to a situation where Robotics rule isn't necessarily the way to go.
Can you name a single MP game you've played in where the majority of players preferenced Robotics over Organics? Do you have a logical argument for this opinion? Are you just stating a supposition that is the complete opposite of every other player's in-game experience?
LienRag wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:30 am 120 speed is not the default for any fleet composition (when 100 clearly was)
120 speed is the default for an energy line fleet. Perhaps clear to a person reading the post you replied to? Perhaps not?
LienRag wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:30 am so just costing one Policy is already a balance factor.
This is the part where you tell me which policy is in direct competition for that policy slot. Keeping in mind that I have multiple slots, I can take both Charge and Design Simplicity. I can take more later in the game.

Hypothetical time. I fill 1 of my military slots with Charge. What glorious biscuits do I now miss out on? And are they as tasty as tasty, tasty, Charge?

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#127 Post by wobbly »

Oberlus wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 7:53 am In this match with wobbly, his organic fleets could win against my robotics with similar total damage and hull points (maybe he used good chaff composition, I never paid attention to detailed combat logs).
A lot of my ships had deflector shields and a lot of your ships had a combination of laser/arc disruptor damage.

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#128 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:51 pm A lot of my ships had deflector shields and a lot of your ships had a combination of laser/arc disruptor damage.
I'm incredibly dumb. Seriously. I never sawlooked at the shield level of your ships.

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#129 Post by BlueAward »

Oberlus wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 3:17 pm
wobbly wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 2:51 pm A lot of my ships had deflector shields and a lot of your ships had a combination of laser/arc disruptor damage.
I'm incredibly dumb. Seriously. I never sawlooked at the shield level of your ships.
If that is any consolation, I have noticed those shields rather late myself. Luckily had plenty of carriers on hand and already started putting out plasma ships incidentally, though actually lost quite a few of the latter to Endhu's last rush just before he conceded.

And also my arc disruptors at tier 3 could punch through a bit so they were more useful than just point defence (corollaly, a nugget of insight: fighters/interceptors make some good chaff against arc disruptors, with malus to shields and bonus to fighter spam from Charge working well together to regret lack of shields less)

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#130 Post by Oberlus »

I also had ceptors, striker and bombers in my fleet. That's why it wasn't a total disaster. But I kept building some of the arc-equiped designs that I could have skipped.
No consolation needed anyways :D
It was a great game. I would have loved to see a better confrontation between you and wobbly, one in which you are not like 50 turns ahead of him in technology (for which he would have needed a different neighbor or better a different galaxy shape or...).

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#131 Post by wobbly »

BlueAward wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 12:56 pm GG wobbly!
To you as well. A little late, but post-game I get a little caught up. I would of liked to see how we went in a 1 on 1, or a fixed alliance on opposite sides, we seemed to get teamed up every time in the previous games.Oh well hope you had fun, and hope to see you in a later game.

Congrats!

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#132 Post by BlueAward »

Dunno had an urge to look at the graphs and figured to leave those here (x axis is 208 turns)
FO.MP23.Graphs.png
FO.MP23.Graphs.png (736.5 KiB) Viewed 789 times

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#133 Post by Oberlus »

Thank you.

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#134 Post by Endhu »

I see I fell behind in production significantly, but otherwise I surprisingly kept up, that's nice. Not a complete loss, though I probably still researched suboptimal tech because BA seemed to be almost always at least a little more advanced.

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Re: Twenty-third game on the multiplayer slow game server

#135 Post by BlueAward »

Endhu wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:40 am I see I fell behind in production significantly, but otherwise I surprisingly kept up, that's nice. Not a complete loss, though I probably still researched suboptimal tech because BA seemed to be almost always at least a little more advanced.
Dunno how the "total military strength" is calculated but one takeaway for me is that I was not joking that your fleet was dangerous. You were third in military strength after wobbly and me, and I was between you two

Nowadays I value production more than science, early to mid game at least, even though I would not want to fall behind in RP - just do not feel the need to be very ahead. Coming from single player I valued research more and still think people may be underestimating science but I understand concerns about aggressive human players. There is a lot to be said about brute force. Think in your place I would try more George planets for PP and fewer silexians for RP, but of course I were not in your shoes to see what was available at any given time

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