Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

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BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#181 Post by BlueAward »

Endhu wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:48 pm That exploit was not intended, yes. The logical thing is that those buildings disappear.

From my perspective, denial tactics are the best course of action. I had doubts about it after the outpost capture bug, but then this particular game is pretty nonstandard. I myself came into it counting with shenanigans.
If we collectively agree that diplomacy abuse is bad and unsporting then I can stop doing it.
Personally I would prefer you hadn't do those denial tactics so it would be less painful for me... But at the same time I do not really mind (except for the bugs!). It is what it is to me - sure, kind of an exploit of the fixed diplomacy scenario we're in, but I view it as a rather logical conclusion of it, well within mechanics of the game and the scenario, and I knew things like that could happen going in, even warned about it (maybe gave you the idea actually xD ) and went in anyway.

I can deal with it, alas not alone, and as you have seen Oberlus is on board to help, but even so, he is not enjoying these plays, viewing them as not sportsmanlike. And that is more of an issue, adding to his willingness to move on from this game, apart from other issues like so many turns taking full 48h to complete

Remains to be seen if Daybreak chose wisely in the end, though for now he is reaping some benefits indeed.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#182 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm About the bug, I'm surprised indeed that the Military Command and the Imperial Palace are not destroyed in gifting as they are in conquest...
Last game with Ophiuchus we saw that with Interspecies Design Academy but didn't realize that it was a bug, so didn't report it.
cant remember. but i did consider gifting when scripting the design academy: it has a good chance of self-destruct if there are more than there should be, so you wont get any benefit from gifting over building it yourself.
Oberlus wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:56 am I can attack someone, but I can't force a faster game.
sorry guys, i am really tied up this time. will skip the next one.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#183 Post by Daybreak »

Oberlus wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:13 pm Palace and Command Center are expected to be unique buildings, so should be destroyed upon gifting.

Keeping AHA on gifting is OK. If you happen to get your hands on a second Cultural Archives without AHA, you are allowed to build one.

I am disappointed with Daybreak and Endhu's exploitations of these bugs. It will boost Daybreaks power, not help Endhu to survive, so it's not only lame but also unfair.
A little unfair - there was an unknown bug, we were unaware of, so hardly an exploitation, and has not been exploited again.
BlueAward wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:35 pm I can deal with it, alas not alone, and as you have seen Oberlus is on board to help, but even so, he is not enjoying these plays, viewing them as not sportsmanlike. And that is more of an issue, adding to his willingness to move on from this game, apart from other issues like so many turns taking full 48h to complete

Remains to be seen if Daybreak chose wisely in the end, though for now he is reaping some benefits indeed.
You say it is not sportmanlike, but the politics both inside and outside dictate it all.
Oberlus accepted warships from you instead of using his own. Not that I feel it is wrong.
From what I scouted Oberlus is receiving an Eaxaw colony ship, and no doubt has arrangements with Wobbly a close friend.

It really doe not matter what politics you set internally, as outside politics will always come into play.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#184 Post by Daybreak »

wobbly wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:22 pm
LienRag wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm And again, if games get boring, the answer is not to start another but to fix what made them boring in the first place.
I'm all for fixing people who turn too slow, but I'm running low on human spare parts at the moment. Need to go out and obtain some more.

More seriously I wonder if people would turn a little more regularly with game access via phone, though obviously in the short term we don't have that option.
Simple - set timer for 18 hours, which still allows for sleep and work and say 2 hours to play, if not more for some.

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#185 Post by BlueAward »

Daybreak wrote: Oberlus accepted warships from you instead of using his own. Not that I feel it is wrong.
You make it sound like I am giving him ships so he can attack you without bringing his own. Oberlus helps me to claim what would be mine anyway without your interference, i.e. Endhu planets given to you to deny me since I cannot attack you directly. You interfere, he is the counter. Meanwhile you did exactly that, gave Endhu some ships so he could (counter)attack me with more ships than what he could muster on his own.

Regarding bugs, you had chance to give me back that planet which should not had been given to you by "me" after successful invasion. Also now you have chance to manually destroy those buildings to lose the extra policy slots rather than using them.. we'll see

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#186 Post by wobbly »

Daybreak wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:05 pm
wobbly wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:22 pm
LienRag wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:01 pm And again, if games get boring, the answer is not to start another but to fix what made them boring in the first place.
I'm all for fixing people who turn too slow, but I'm running low on human spare parts at the moment. Need to go out and obtain some more.

More seriously I wonder if people would turn a little more regularly with game access via phone, though obviously in the short term we don't have that option.
Simple - set timer for 18 hours, which still allows for sleep and work and say 2 hours to play, if not more for some.
Yeah simple, except for the part that no one can go away for even a day, in a game that can last for multiple months. I turn faster then 18hrs under normal circumstances but I'm not sacricing real life just to play.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#187 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:02 pm
Oberlus wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:13 pm I am disappointed with Daybreak and Endhu's exploitations of these bugs. It will boost Daybreaks power, not help Endhu to survive, so it's not only lame but also unfair.
A little unfair - there was an unknown bug, we were unaware of, so hardly an exploitation, and has not been exploited again.
Why you said "not been exploited again"? It's been already several Endhu-DB giftings right before the invasion.
Also, did you scrap the mentioned unique buildings already?

This comment of yours here stikes me as plain bullshit.



Daybreak wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:02 pm You say it is not sportmanlike, but the politics both inside and outside dictate it all.
Excuses. So you don't understand fairness or sportmanship.
Daybreak wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:02 pm Oberlus accepted warships from you instead of using his own. Not that I feel it is wrong.
Only after your exploitation of current diplomacy mechanics.
Only to try and undo your exploitation of current diplomatcy mechanics.

What you are saying here is outrageous.
Daybreak wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:02 pm From what I scouted Oberlus is receiving an Eaxaw colony ship, and no doubt has arrangements with Wobbly a close friend.
Ah, so the problem you try to pinpoint is that I could be playing in-game influenced by out-of-game things? And that that justifies your own exploitations of the game?

Being influenced by out-of-game stuff is a completely different issue, and not an issue at all.

For your information:
No, I am not exchanging species with W. BA and W are allies and asked my permission to travers my space for their exchange.
I am exchanging species with my in-game allies, Ophiuchus and Endhu.

Seriously: Fuck you, Daybreak, for all these comments. Out of game comment all for your attention. I'm sure you won't play different in game after telling you that (I mean: fuck you).


Anyways, we are not talking about inside/outside politics, but about exploiting a bug and a ill-fated diplomatic configuration.

I get the answer you finally give:

You'll do whatever you want and you will always answer with a "no, you" when someone asks you to stop.

o01eg
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#188 Post by o01eg »

I also think 18h is too quick, maybe 36h as 48h really feels slow.

Do anyone also seen issue with Structural Damage by Fleet summary?
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#189 Post by Oberlus »

36 hours could be enough for every/most players to handle up to 70h long absences (long weekends or whatever) without needing babysitting/pause.

Ideally, we could have two games in parallel, one for 24h timer and one for 36h or 48h? I'd play both, some people would play only one, so I guess we could still have games of 4+ players in both modes. No idea if server can afford it.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#190 Post by Oberlus »

o01eg wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:25 am Do anyone also seen issue with Structural Damage by Fleet summary?
I haven't payed attention, but I think I'm used to wrong calculations for several years already. I'll try to find examples and take screenshots.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#191 Post by wobbly »

I'm aware of only 2 empires that swapped species with an empire at war. Neither of which happen to be mine.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#192 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:59 am I'm aware of only 2 empires that swapped species with an empire at war. Neither of which happen to be mine.
Oh, so Daybreak is implicated in every out-of-diplomacy species exchanges and he is the first one to point fingers. LOL, so much bullshit.
I rest reassured.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#193 Post by o01eg »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:51 am Ideally, we could have two games in parallel, one for 24h timer and one for 36h or 48h? I'd play both, some people would play only one, so I guess we could still have games of 4+ players in both modes. No idea if server can afford it.
No, there no easy way to put two FO servers on same address even with different port so I suppose we need second server for second game.
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#194 Post by wobbly »

o01eg wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:25 am I also think 18h is too quick, maybe 36h as 48h really feels slow.
fine by me
o01eg wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:25 am Do anyone also seen issue with Structural Damage by Fleet summary?
What am I actually looking for? I mean the following is certainly weird: look at the fleet total damage and look at the ship.
Interestingmaths.png
Interestingmaths.png (19.35 KiB) Viewed 999 times

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#195 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:05 am you don't understand fairness or sportmanship.
Fairness and sportsmanship is playing the game according to its rules.

Bugs are a different thing, and nobody knew this bug existed. There can be a discussion about what to do now but beginning it by spouting insults is not a great way to have it fare well.

If someone needs to pinpoint it to you, giftings are not a bug, they're a basic functionality of the game. So using them to a player's advantage is just playing well.

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:05 am Being influenced by out-of-game stuff is a completely different issue
Yes, that is the part where fairness and sportsmanship comes into play.
Good sportsmen and fair players agree to play their game (especially the multi-players ones) in order to win it (or at least to try to win it it to their best ability), without letting any "out of game stuff" take precedence over that.

But the truth is that we all joined the game on a basis of "who agrees to play" and not about "who agrees to play fair and be a good sportsman".

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