Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

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wobbly
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#151 Post by wobbly »

BlueAward mentioned in chat that you can still build colony ships at a planet with stability below the threshold for colonisation. That sounds like a bug to me.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#152 Post by BlueAward »

wobbly wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:51 am BlueAward mentioned in chat that you can still build colony ships at a planet with stability below the threshold for colonisation. That sounds like a bug to me.
I mean, that was one of the things I have mentioned on the twenty-first MP thread:
BlueAward wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:16 pm OK, so my empire includes:
  • [...]
  • Permanently rioting Fulver shipyard world, kept in check by local defensive troops; they would not repair your ships, but were perfectly fine building new ones, including colonizers [...]
I used that to plant Fulver elsewhere without having to make them happy or asking LR to do that for me

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#153 Post by BlueAward »

Ah also did anything come out of exploration discussion earlier? I could certainly share some ideas like.. we could have some exploration specials that require a policy and / or certain research (even tiered) to get and give some goodies like big chunk of research or even some research unlock... maybe temporary PP boost on capital that wanes off..

And/or such goodies, maybe of smaller magnitude, could extend possible exploration events to incite people doing exploration. We have mapping, refueling and khakturian troop ship.. maybe add some more like PP/RP boost

But then again Oberlus complained not to reward exploration too much because some empires may not be in position to explore?

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#154 Post by Oberlus »

BlueAward wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:53 am we could have some exploration specials that require a policy and / or certain research (even tiered) to get and give some goodies like big chunk of research or even some research unlock... maybe temporary PP boost on capital that wanes off..
I think I remember someone (else? maybe LienRag?) proposed something like that.
Making Exploration to allow for extra one-time bonuses apart from what it already has (+1 PP per "explored" system) makes a lot of sense.
BlueAward wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:53 am incite people doing exploration
I wonder who isn't incited to do exploration, even without Exploration policy.
My scouts stop scouting when they run out of fuel or the path is blocked. Once empires see each other's borders, scouting is also about military power, not only about being incited to see what's further away. So rewarding "exploration" in that sense means rewarding the already winning empires that need no extra motivation to do what they were already doing: visiting systems in their way to galaxy conquest.
If exploration (the action, not the policy) is going to give interesting rewards like more PP and RP, these should be tied to an activity different than and somewhat opposed to conquering. Currently one can scout with warships and troopships that are also chasing enemy scouts, conquering natives, watching and expanding own borders, etc. The limits are supply, fuel and military power, with the special case of stealth ships passing past enemy blockades. So, no matter from what perspective I look at it, all these ideas about exploration are the perfect match for what military-superior empires already do. Early game it is also a good match to aggressive expansion strategy (you grow as you scout, and vice versa, because growing also means spanding your supply range and hence your exploration range).

Maybe require a ship part, kind of scientific team / mobile lab onboard? Something that goes straight against military because it takes out space and PP from other purposes.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#155 Post by BlueAward »

Oberlus wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:53 am
BlueAward wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:53 am incite people doing exploration
I wonder who isn't incited to do exploration, even without Exploration policy.
Well, eventually nobody, it was the question of early game. But those are degenerated cases... one thing we have moved on was the "lost" RP but not sure if that is fixed yet? Another was Trith getting penalized for exploration to an extent, but I suppose that we also want to actually fix

So yeah that indeed needs to be framed under inciting some extra effort. You mention some other line of ship parts, for PP cost. I mentioned possibilty of RP cost (extra line of research). Suppose that may be married i.e. you gotta research the part and then actually build it. And may be tiered. Though I think the expectation would be such ships should still work as scouts.. so maybe ban weapons on such ships at least but allow stealth, scanners (or just make scanner work for the extra exploration part, or make the new part act as scanner too)

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#156 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:53 am I think I remember someone (else? maybe LienRag?) proposed something like that.
Making Exploration to allow for extra one-time bonuses apart from what it already has (+1 PP per "explored" system) makes a lot of sense.
You mean the "Anomaly" and "Spacefaring" parts of this thread ?

Yep, I still think that they would be a very interesting addition to the game...

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#157 Post by BlueAward »

OK this is some bull, the trolling I predicted could happen in this scenario we're having, Daybreak of course attempted, which I anticipated and invaded the planet that Endhu wanted to give to Daybreak... Except that was the same turn that gifting. So in the sitrep I have it that there was ground battle with Endhu, and that I captured the planet... lost the troop ship in the process, too, obviously... But the planet still ended up gifted to Daybreak. Don't think this should happen that way - either the gifting should happen first, so I should not be able to invade someone I'm at peace with (do not lose the troop ship etc.. or invade successfully if I'm at war with the person gifted to), or the gifting should not happen once the planet is supposedly mine

(For posteriority - turn 47, MP22)

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#158 Post by wobbly »

BlueAward wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:45 am OK this is some bull, the trolling I predicted could happen in this scenario we're having, Daybreak of course attempted, which I anticipated and invaded the planet that Endhu wanted to give to Daybreak... Except that was the same turn that gifting. So in the sitrep I have it that there was ground battle with Endhu, and that I captured the planet... lost the troop ship in the process, too, obviously... But the planet still ended up gifted to Daybreak. Don't think this should happen that way - either the gifting should happen first, so I should not be able to invade someone I'm at peace with (do not lose the troop ship etc.. or invade successfully if I'm at war with the person gifted to), or the gifting should not happen once the planet is supposedly mine

(For posteriority - turn 47, MP22)
Can you open an issue on Github for this?

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#159 Post by BlueAward »

wobbly wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:35 am
BlueAward wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 2:45 am (For posteriority - turn 47, MP22)
Can you open an issue on Github for this?
opened https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/issues/4345

Apparently the planet shows as gifted by me, I am totally not salty and not want it back :P Sigh. So the invasion was successful, but the gifting order stuck around, and was executed as me gifting the planet to DB

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#160 Post by wobbly »

BlueAward wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:12 am Apparently the planet shows as gifted by me, I am totally not salty and not want it back :P Sigh. So the invasion was successful, but the gifting order stuck around, and was executed as me gifting the planet to DB
This is a case where daybreak could make it right by gifting the planet to you, as you have a resource in system and are at peace. Hint. Hint.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#161 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:37 pm
BlueAward wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:12 am Apparently the planet shows as gifted by me, I am totally not salty and not want it back :P Sigh. So the invasion was successful, but the gifting order stuck around, and was executed as me gifting the planet to DB
This is a case where daybreak could make it right by gifting the planet to you, as you have a resource in system and are at peace. Hint. Hint.
But the whole point of the gifting was to stop BA from getting the planet.
I guess we all have to get used to this until it is solved.
There are ways to disable this kind of exploit in-game (like asking an ally that is at war with both of the exploiters to do the invasion), so let's do it.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#162 Post by wobbly »

Oberlus wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:07 pm
wobbly wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:37 pm
BlueAward wrote: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:12 am Apparently the planet shows as gifted by me, I am totally not salty and not want it back :P Sigh. So the invasion was successful, but the gifting order stuck around, and was executed as me gifting the planet to DB
This is a case where daybreak could make it right by gifting the planet to you, as you have a resource in system and are at peace. Hint. Hint.
But the whole point of the gifting was to stop BA from getting the planet.
I guess we all have to get used to this until it is solved.
There are ways to disable this kind of exploit in-game (like asking an ally that is at war with both of the exploiters to do the invasion), so let's do it.
My point is that the gifting actually working was a bug, as the invasion occurs 1st. Anyway, end of the day it's daybreak call here.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#163 Post by wobbly »

Small note: that there's other potential bugs here. I wonder what happens when a ship/colony is gifted on the turn it gets destroyed.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#164 Post by Ophiuchus »

Short notice: I will be away for (maybe extended) weekend.
Not possible to make my turns. Any idea who could take over for me?
Maybe somebody not in the game currently?
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#165 Post by wobbly »

Anyone likely to play is likely already playing. Don't know if your allies are prepared to make a deal. I suspect Oberlus can see most of o01eg's space already.

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