Return to stealthy

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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jinlanid
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Return to stealthy

#1 Post by jinlanid » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:10 am

Say, if a stealthy ship does not do anything that can broke stealthy status, and is not attacked by any fighter, then next bout it can return to stealthy status.

If we apply "KISS hard targeting" then fighters will be greatly nerfed. They can't kill ships in bout 1, shield is too expensive. Most of the time, you only need fighters if enemy has +5 shield or has stealthy warship.

That's OK, but not funny. Fighters used to be very powerful, that makes internal slot very precious. After our targeting change, we no longer need as more as possible fighters, so we can have a lot more fuel, makes fuel also be nerfed.

Allow stealthy ship return to stealthy status will significantly buff stealth tech, and you will need fighters as an anti-stealth method. Fighters, internal slots, fuel, all buffed as once.

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Oberlus
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Re: Return to stealthy

#2 Post by Oberlus » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:17 am

if a stealthy ship does not do anything that can broke stealthy status
Then that ship is undetected, can't be attacked and does not need to recover that status, isn't it?
Most of the time, you only need fighters if enemy has +5 shield or has stealthy warship
I strongly disagree. You need to deploy fighters always, because they are great against chaff (decoys) and shields. Fighters are not UP in any way. We are testing them and they work wonders, even against unshielded fleets.

jinlanid
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Re: Return to stealthy

#3 Post by jinlanid » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:03 am

In bout 1, a stealthy ship do something and broke stealthy. In bout 2, if it don't attack or launch and not attacked by fighters, then in bout 3, that stealthy ship return back to stealthy status, thus will not be attacked.

So if enemy don't have fighter, a stealthy fighter carrier will only be attacked in bout 2. It's a GREAT buff.

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Re: Return to stealthy

#4 Post by Oberlus » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:14 am

Indeed that would be a boost. But we probably don't want it. Carriers are not particularly weak, they don't need to be buffed.

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Re: Return to stealthy

#5 Post by jinlanid » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:40 am

Canon can kill enemy ship in bout 1, that potentially can reduce enemy damage.
Fighter can ignore shield, but shield is very expensive.
So if your enemy only have +3 shield, then fighters is not significantly better.

Fighters is good anti-stealthy system. Stealthy ship is invisible in bout 1, fighter carrier don't attack in bout 1, totally negate stealthy tech.


Buffing stealthy and fighters, will greatly buff internal slots. That then in turn makes fuel more precious, it use internal slot. Makes supply range really matter.

I always say, we have too much supply range. Supply range should be very precious.

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Re: Return to stealthy

#6 Post by Oberlus » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:49 am

I practically disagree on everything you said. Maybe we play on very different galaxies.

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Re: Return to stealthy

#7 Post by jinlanid » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:14 pm

If you have 2 ships, 1 titan, 1 scout. He has 10 carrier, carrying 20 bombers.
Then, in bout 2, 10 bombers will attack titan, 10 bombers will attack scout. Fighters don't solve "decoy" problem.

If you have +3 shield, laser do 24 damage, bomber do 36 damage. But:
1 Shield is very expensive, that means if your enemy has shield, you can have more lasers.
2 Laser can potentially kill ship in bout 1, potentially reduce enemy damage.

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Re: Return to stealthy

#8 Post by Ophiuchus » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:37 pm

Fighters "solve" the problem of bringing down hoards of enemy chaff better than ship weapons - one Fighter hangar (@25PP) can down three chaff (three to five per combat), one ship weapon can down one chaff (three per combat). This is most relevant for comsats and other very cheap and easy to build one-hit-dead chaff (fighters coming at 4dam/6dam/8dam/10dam) so mostly small hull and base hull chaff.

Fighter advantage is not much against mass drivers, but you can not upgrade mass drivers with tech as much as fighters. Fighter advantage is higher against more expensive weapons e.g. plasma (more overkill, 50% more cost)

Ship weapons have the advantage in bout 1 for this, fighters in bout 2, in bout three it may even out if all fighters were downed.

But else i agree with Oberlus, fighters are great against shields (which will be buffed soon). Especially good if deployed in hidden fleets. And you can build first, upgrade later so a good option if you have PP at your hands early.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Re: Return to stealthy

#9 Post by Oberlus » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:18 pm

jinlanid wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:14 pm
If you have 2 ships, 1 titan, 1 scout. He has 10 carrier, carrying 20 bombers.
Then, in bout 2, 10 bombers will attack titan, 10 bombers will attack scout. Fighters don't solve "decoy" problem.
An unrealistic scenario.
1. He should have some direct-damage weapons (nothing impedes him to have them) to kill scout on bout 1.
2. He doesn't care, bombers will kill titan anyway.

If you have +3 shield, laser do 24 damage, bomber do 36 damage. But:
1 Shield is very expensive, that means if your enemy has shield, you can have more lasers.
2 Laser can potentially kill ship in bout 1, potentially reduce enemy damage.
So lasers and bombers have different niches, and shields are overpriced when fighters are on game. We are aware of that, working on it.

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