New species trait: Engines (ship speed)

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Oberlus
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New species trait: Engines (ship speed)

#1 Post by Oberlus » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:40 pm

Ophiuchus wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:06 pm
One interesting map-interacting trait could be of ship speed upgrades. Having ships for covering a larger part of border, or outrunning same-tech enemies, or faster close-to-supply exploration, or faster to deploy ships from your shipyards. Would be nice for species which can build ships but can not colonize elsewhere (e.g. acirema).
Could be categorized as exploration/logistics - also interacting with combat (vs pilot,fuel,armour,shields) and invasion (vs troops,fuel,armour).
Indeed. It could work with +10 speed per trait level, so a bad speed species would have asteroid speed 50 and energy hull speed 110, and a great speed species would be 80 and 140 respectively. This means the effect is much stronger on the slower hulls so bad species would have an incentive to go for organic/energy hulls and good species could find interesting to go for asteroids and robos.
Alternatively, it could be based on a percentage of the hull's base speed: 20%, so:
Base speed Inc. per level
60 +12
75 +15
80 +16
90 +18
100 +20
120 +24

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LienRag
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Re: New species trait: Engines (ship speed)

#2 Post by LienRag » Sun May 17, 2020 5:04 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:40 pm
Indeed. It could work with +10 speed per trait level, so a bad speed species would have asteroid speed 50 and energy hull speed 110, and a great speed species would be 80 and 140 respectively. This means the effect is much stronger on the slower hulls so bad species would have an incentive to go for organic/energy hulls and good species could find interesting to go for asteroids and robos.
I like this one better, but that may be my lack of experience talking.

I'm also partial to bonus for one Ship Hull only (obviously not a no-brainer one like the Self-Graviting Hull), which would make standard fleet composition not possible as each specie would have a different optimum.

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Re: New species trait: Engines (ship speed)

#3 Post by Oberlus » Sun May 17, 2020 5:37 pm

LienRag wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:04 pm
I'm also partial to bonus for one Ship Hull only (obviously not a no-brainer one like the Self-Graviting Hull), which would make standard fleet composition not possible as each specie would have a different optimum.
What? A bonus for a specific ship hull? So many different traits each one for a different ship hull?
I'm totally against that.

Keep things general, allow freedom of choice to the players, variety of strategies. E.g., do not make species (traits) that constraint the hull line they should research to one.

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LienRag
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Re: New species trait: Engines (ship speed)

#4 Post by LienRag » Sun May 17, 2020 6:50 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:37 pm
E.g., do not make species (traits) that constraint the hull line they should research to one.
You're right, I didn't take into account that the player would be mostly stuck on that Hull line after that since researching multiple hull lines on a small to medium Galaxy is penalizing.

What I intended to generate is some invitation to reap more from some parts of the game, not driving the player's strategy.

I still think that it would be a good idea for Natives, though. If one plays this Hull line he will tend to try to acquire these Natives, either he'll spare himself the effort.

Is there a way to have some Species traits appear only when they're Natives, not when there are the starting specie (like a "keeping true to tradition" thing that one would lose when too ambitious) ?

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Re: New species trait: Engines (ship speed)

#5 Post by Oberlus » Sun May 17, 2020 7:03 pm

LienRag wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:50 pm
What I intended to generate is some invitation to reap more from some parts of the game, not driving the player's strategy.
Each part of the game research tree should have interest on its own, without that being (much) influenced by the species traits.
LienRag wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:50 pm
I still think that it would be a good idea for Natives, though. If one plays this Hull line he will tend to try to acquire these Natives, either he'll spare himself the effort.
Players will often get any natives they can, even if they are "bad" (ultimately, you can remove them from the planet, but usually they are good powerhouses of PP/RP).
LienRag wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:50 pm
Is there a way to have some Species traits appear only when they're Natives, not when there are the starting specie (like a "keeping true to tradition" thing that one would lose when too ambitious) ?
Species traits do not "appear", they are not random, they are set, and (hopefully) carefully balanced.

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LienRag
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Re: New species trait: Engines (ship speed)

#6 Post by LienRag » Sun May 17, 2020 8:29 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:03 pm
LienRag wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:50 pm
What I intended to generate is some invitation to reap more from some parts of the game, not driving the player's strategy.
Each part of the game research tree should have interest on its own, without that being (much) influenced by the species traits.
What I meant is that if one has a bonus for, let's say, Protoplasmic Hulls, he'll be incited to make the most of the game stage where Protoplasmic Hulls are relevant, making for a more varied game experience.
Oberlus wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:03 pm
Players will often get any natives they can, even if they are "bad" (ultimately, you can remove them from the planet, but usually they are good powerhouses of PP/RP).
Aren't you working on precisely correcting that with Influence and Species values ?

Oberlus wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:03 pm
LienRag wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 6:50 pm
Is there a way to have some Species traits appear only when they're Natives, not when there are the starting specie (like a "keeping true to tradition" thing that one would lose when too ambitious) ?
Species traits do not "appear", they are not random, they are set, and (hopefully) carefully balanced.
I mean having two sets, one for when they appear as playable species, and one when they're Natives ?

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Re: New species trait: Engines (ship speed)

#7 Post by Oberlus » Sun May 17, 2020 8:46 pm

LienRag wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:29 pm
Oberlus wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:03 pm
Each part of the game research tree should have interest on its own, without that being (much) influenced by the species traits.
What I meant is that if one has a bonus for, let's say, Protoplasmic Hulls, he'll be incited to make the most of the game stage where Protoplasmic Hulls are relevant, making for a more varied game experience.
What you say is obvious in what it means and implies. And I can just repeat myself.

Oberlus wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:03 pm
Players will often get any natives they can, even if they are "bad" (ultimately, you can remove them from the planet, but usually they are good powerhouses of PP/RP).
Aren't you working on precisely correcting that with Influence and Species values ?
There is nothing to correct in there, conquering natives is not a problem. It just need to be balanced: so much benefit for the conquer, so much cost to get it done.
What I meant is that you don't need to add fancy and implicitly broken species traits to encourage the conquering of natives.
Oberlus wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:03 pm
Species traits do not "appear", they are not random, they are set, and (hopefully) carefully balanced.
I mean having two sets, one for when they appear as playable species, and one when they're Natives ?
Even if you mean species traits only for natives, they don't "appear", you put them on purpose on each species in their FOCS definition files.

Are you trolling me?

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