Changing Number of Bouts - Planetary Defense

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

Moderators: Oberlus, Oberlus

Post Reply
Message
Author
Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Changing Number of Bouts - Planetary Defense

#1 Post by Ophiuchus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:04 am

Hi I am thinking how to change the number of bouts while keeping the balance.

For ship combat damage/structure ratio this is easy. If you change the number of bouts (which changes the number of times your ships do damage) you can simply scale structure accordingly.

For planetary defense value this is not so easy as it functions as a mixture between structure and damage. If you e.g. double it because you double the number of bouts in combat, it does twice the damage as well. If you do not double defense, then it is wiped out in no time being much weaker than in the normal version.

I am looking for input how to scale or how to make this easier scalable.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

User avatar
alleryn
Space Dragon
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:32 pm

Re: Changing Number of Bouts - Planetary Defense

#2 Post by alleryn » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:10 am

Ophiuchus wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:04 am
Hi I am thinking how to change the number of bouts while keeping the balance.

For ship combat damage/structure ratio this is easy. If you change the number of bouts (which changes the number of times your ships do damage) you can simply scale structure accordingly.

For planetary defense value this is not so easy as it functions as a mixture between structure and damage. If you e.g. double it because you double the number of bouts in combat, it does twice the damage as well. If you do not double defense, then it is wiped out in no time being much weaker than in the normal version.

I am looking for input how to scale or how to make this easier scalable.
What if you, e.g., double the planet's shields and leave defense alone?

User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Changing Number of Bouts - Planetary Defense

#3 Post by Oberlus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:41 am

alleryn wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:10 am
What if you, e.g., double the planet's shields and leave defense alone?
I support that. It's simple.

Planetary shields per tech:
TechFor 3 boutsFor 4 bouts
Force Fields+10+14
Planet Shield 1+30+40
Planet Shield 2+60+80
Planet Shield 3+90+120
Planet Shield 4+150+200
Planet Shield 5+150+200

Planetary shields (total):
For 3 boutsFor 4 boutsIncrease per level
11NA
1115+1400%
4155+266.67%
101135+145.45%
191255+88.89%
341455+78.43%
491655+43.96%

While you are at it, consider increasing the amount of planetary shields you get from each tech. Later levels are rather underpowered with respect the expected power of attacking fleets. I would, at least, increase the last tier tech to +210 for 3 bouts to a maximum of 551 shields, and +280 for 4 bouts to a maximum of 735.

Actually, I would do something like this:

Bonus per tech:
TechFor 3 boutsFor 4 bouts
Force Fields+9+14
Planet Shield 1+30+40
Planet Shield 2+60+80
Planet Shield 3+100+135
Planet Shield 4+150+200
Planet Shield 5+200+300

Totals:
For 3 boutsFor 4 bouts
11
1015
4055
100135
200270
350470
550770
The increase from FF is inconsistent between 3-bouts and 4-bouts but I like rounded numbers :roll:

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: Changing Number of Bouts - Planetary Defense

#4 Post by Ophiuchus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:32 am

alleryn wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:10 am
What if you, e.g., double the planet's shields and leave defense alone?
To keep the balance I would have to double shields anyway.

I could add/subtract stuff amounts of defense to/from shields though, leading to a similar effect to only scaling
the structure part of defense meter.
So if defense was 30 and shields were 100, doubling the bouts would result in 30 defense and 230 shields.

This hinders invasion a bit more in the doubled case and maybe delays the ablation of defense but it's pretty KISS and I think still reasonable.

Note I am looking both at extension to 4 bouts as well as setting arbitrary N bouts. So this could be a single setting influencing all related values (bouts, shields, defense, structure,..) or one would have to set each of those individually.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Changing Number of Bouts - Planetary Defense

#5 Post by Oberlus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:57 am

Ophiuchus wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:32 am
Note I am looking both at extension to 4 bouts as well as setting arbitrary N bouts. So this could be a single setting influencing all related values (bouts, shields, defense, structure,..) or one would have to set each of those individually.
If having un-rounded numbers is not a problem, using a scale factor should be fine.

I wouldn't care much for the exactness of the balance regarding planetary defences because those are already broken in current system: mid game they are close to irrelevant except for systems with many planets, which become irrelevant late game.

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 1037
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: Changing Number of Bouts - Planetary Defense

#6 Post by Ophiuchus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:54 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:57 am
I wouldn't care much for the exactness of the balance regarding planetary defences because those are already broken in current system: mid game they are close to irrelevant except for systems with many planets, which become irrelevant late game.
I do not care too much for the current balance but if we have balanced the planetary defenses for 3 bouts I would like to switch to be able to switch to a different number of bouts and have ok balance.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

Post Reply