Make pro/res tech increases 0.1 or 0.2 (huge nerf)

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Oberlus
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Re: Make pro/res tech increases 0.1 or 0.2 (huge nerf)

#31 Post by Oberlus » Tue May 19, 2020 11:33 pm

LienRag wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:56 pm
So indeed making the basic population production matter more and the population-dependant a bit lower may be a good recalibration.
I don't understand, "basic population production" is pop-dependant. Do you mean the fixed 0.5*pop production at the HW that is fixed?
The only problem I see is that by nerfing production and research bonus it makes them much less relevant compared to their research cost, so going full military early rather than trying to build a research/production base risk to be the only viable strategy.
We know that, it's explained in the PR.
Anyways, try it yourself: start a standard SP game and go full military (hulls, weapons, armour) instead of colonizing and researching some economy. Real feedback will be appreciated.
Remember that at early game, the population numbers are not very high, so the bonus that each tech gives is usually very small.
And so the nerf takes out little production.
Having nearly the same production whether one managed to get a Blue-starred Solar Orbital Generator or just went for higher level military technologies is not making the game neither diverse nor fun.
You won't have "nearly the same production". +0.15*pop from that blue-SOG, when you first got the starting +0.2*pop plus the +0.1 from Rob. Prod. and Fusion Gen. means an increase of 50% of the pop-based production. The problem is that flat bonuses are much bigger (if they stay at +5 from AA and +10 from GGG), but that's being handled with another PR. Subject to more balance after more playtesting.

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LienRag
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Re: Make pro/res tech increases 0.1 or 0.2 (huge nerf)

#32 Post by LienRag » Tue May 19, 2020 11:38 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 11:33 pm
LienRag wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:56 pm
So indeed making the basic population production matter more and the population-dependant a bit lower may be a good recalibration.
I don't understand, "basic population production" is pop-dependant. Do you mean the fixed 0.5*pop production at the HW that is fixed?
I mean, the base production of any planet, even one with ultimate traits species, is extremely low without the different boni.
At early game and without AA, GGGs or a good SOG only the Homeworld is actually able to produce significantly.

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Re: Make pro/res tech increases 0.1 or 0.2 (huge nerf)

#33 Post by UrshMost » Fri May 29, 2020 12:25 am

My $.02 as someone who has been playing single player for couple years now; on big maps with lots of AIs and most options set to random;

The 2020-05-26 build means a lot slower game vs a build from last month, and for me right now, is not nearly as fun. Turns take just as long for the computer to process, but not nearly as much gets built during a turn due to the recent production nerf, and it seems to really make the game drag out. It feels like in Civ when you change the setting from a normal length game to an epic length game .
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Re: Make pro/res tech increases 0.1 or 0.2 (huge nerf)

#34 Post by Oberlus » Fri May 29, 2020 1:06 am

UrshMost wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:25 am
My $.02 as someone who has been playing single player for couple years now; on big maps with lots of AIs and most options set to random;

The 2020-05-26 build means a lot slower game vs a build from last month, and for me right now, is not nearly as fun. Turns take just as long for the computer to process, but not nearly as much gets built during a turn due to the recent production nerf, and it seems to really make the game drag out. It feels like in Civ when you change the setting from a normal length game to an epic length game .
To get a faster paced game, you can change cost of techs, hulls, parts and buildings in balance tab at galaxy setup. Current default values are 2.0 for techs and 1.0 for the rest. Make them 1.0 and 0.5 to go twice as fast. Please, try that out (or play with the numbers) and report back.
The purpose of the nerf is not to make game slower but to reduce snowballing (which has been achieved to some extent, now there are no killing techs that double or triple output in a blink). We might need to change the default values of those cost factors to get a better experience, so your feedback is appreciated.

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