Exobot population on asteroids

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swaq
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Exobot population on asteroids

#1 Post by swaq » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:34 am

Maybe I'm going crazy but I don't recall having as much difficulty colonizing asteroids with Exobots as I had in my latest game. I found I needed Subterranean Habitation, Symbiotic Biology, and Xenological Genetics before Exobots will survive on asteroids. This seems like a lot for the only(?) species that can colonize asteroids.

Playing on v0.4.8+ (r18048.bf54787a9-1), compiled today.
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Oberlus
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#2 Post by Oberlus » Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:45 am

Exobots have been poor on asteroids for at least three years (and several releases). Maybe since always.

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swaq
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#3 Post by swaq » Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:06 pm

Yeah, I figured I just hadn't been paying attention before. I guess I'm just a little salty because I've lost three games on the same seed now and being able to establish Exobots on asteroids sooner would be a huge help for that particular galaxy layout. I should probably give up on it but now I want revenge, heh.

defaultuser
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#4 Post by defaultuser » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:34 am

Or you need a robotic growth special before Xenological Genetics.

Teensy Juggernaut
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#5 Post by Teensy Juggernaut » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:26 pm

No I'm pretty sure he's right. Same thing happened to me when I first used 0.4.8-stable and I was confused. WTH? Where did my colony go?! So I re-colonized the asteroid outpost, just to watch them all break down (can robots 'die'?) and revert to an outpost in 4 turns. When, back in 0.4.7 and prior, we would race outpost ships to asteroid belts far afield from our supply lanes while researching a straight line to exobots; they wouldn't grow any (until you researched some habitation and robotic goodies) but they didn't die off, either. Which we'll still do, but now there's a little bit more research queue work to be done first. Not a big change, but like all changes, it takes a second to adjust.

Well, it's a cheap education, anyway. Dying in 4 turns only hurts while watching your freshly-completed shipyard disappear. Poof.

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alleryn
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#6 Post by alleryn » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:02 pm

Teensy Juggernaut wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:26 pm
they wouldn't grow any (until you researched some habitation and robotic goodies) but they didn't die off, either.
I'm skeptical of this claim. It's pretty rare to have a target population of exactly 1 (which you would need for no growth/decay after colonization). Usually you'll either have 0 and the species will die off, or greater than 1 and the colony will grow.

In particular i think it's all-but-impossible on an asteroid, which has size 3. Pretty much every change to max population i can think of (world tree being the only exception springing to mind) is in multiples of planet size, so a hypothetical exobot asteroid colony would usually have either 0, 3, 6 ... max population.

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swaq
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#7 Post by swaq » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:01 pm

Teensy Juggernaut wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:26 pm
Well, it's a cheap education, anyway. Dying in 4 turns only hurts while watching your freshly-completed shipyard disappear. Poof.
Your buildings shouldn't disappear when a population dies out.

Teensy Juggernaut
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#8 Post by Teensy Juggernaut » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:05 pm

Ahh well TBH you're probably right, no idea, just know that you cannot build there once it zeros out. Never noticed if when you get back there after getting some research if it was still there... did notice stuff in the queue goes "never" but will definitely resume when you colonize again.

So if what you say is true, theoretically, PP waste aside, you could just constantly re-re-requeue an exobot colony, everytime it finishes, you get 3 turns of completion of what you've got in the queue? Like, I could have a 12-building complex built by suiciding exobot drones? Interesting. Wasteful, but still...

Teensy Juggernaut
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#9 Post by Teensy Juggernaut » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:08 pm

alleryn wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:02 pm
Teensy Juggernaut wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:26 pm
they wouldn't grow any (until you researched some habitation and robotic goodies) but they didn't die off, either.
I'm skeptical of this claim. It's pretty rare to have a target population of exactly 1 (which you would need for no growth/decay after colonization). Usually you'll either have 0 and the species will die off, or greater than 1 and the colony will grow.

In particular i think it's all-but-impossible on an asteroid, which has size 3. Pretty much every change to max population i can think of (world tree being the only exception springing to mind) is in multiples of planet size, so a hypothetical exobot asteroid colony would usually have either 0, 3, 6 ... max population.
You could be right, we could install older versions and play, it could be as simple as the prerequisite for keeping the exobot (poor) scenario alive and productive was in the chain when you batch-queued exobots. No idea. I DO know that previously once you had exobots, you could immediately, that turn, build on asteroid outposts and not die off. And in 0.4.8, you do.

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Oberlus
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#10 Post by Oberlus » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:21 am

Teensy Juggernaut wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:26 pm
back in 0.4.7 and prior, we would race outpost ships to asteroid belts far afield from our supply lanes while researching a straight line to exobots; they wouldn't grow any (until you researched some habitation and robotic goodies) but they didn't die off, either.
I'm possitive 0.4.7 (september 2016) had poor asteroids for Exobots. On february 2016 they we're still poor, and I bet 0.4.5 had it that way. The only explanation for what you describe would be that there was a bug that affected Exobots, or that population mechanics where different back then and you could colonise anything with anything for a population of 1 even for planets showing you negative numbers.

Teensy Juggernaut
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#11 Post by Teensy Juggernaut » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:30 pm

It's not that they weren't Poor, as far as I remember that's been always, it's that they were initially survivable when they were first colonized. Yea I mean while I've been playing the game intermittently for a decade or so (I remember upgrading 0.3.7 to 0.3.9 and it crashed constantly and I quit playing for years, not out of frustration but just other crap to do, and forgot about it.), it's not like while playing you dug into the mechanics of things... never even came to the forum before now. You built what you built when it let you build it. It could have been either or both those. I'm leaning towards the prerequisite for making it neutral survivability (0.0) instead of hostile death (-3.0) somehow always pre-done, like starting a new game and only double-clicking exobots, whatever growth bit that allowed this got auto-added in the queue. I do remember population didn't initially grow, but you could build.

It's not important. I'm just saying I agree with the OP, it didn't used to be this way and took a second to adjust. If you say it always was, it's fine. Not important. I actually like this change because I am not a 100% optimized kind of player and it slows down getting early colonies up and producing by at least 4 extra turns. I don't have my queues preplanned 100 moves ahead. I'm sure the dedicated MP guys wish there was a initial saved queue for both production and resources (like saved ships are that auto-include themselves to available when the tech arrives) because they do the exact same things for those first 37 tech researches, regardless. It's like a chess player whose memorized their favourite openings and use them exclusively. I don't play with those types - they get bored and I get frustrated. :cry:

Never occurred to me it could have been a bug. Indeed may have said (-3.0) and still let us do it. That's kind of funny. Hey, if you don't know, you don't know! Kind of like that discussion you are having about the hidden ships in the queue 1 turn from completion, being undetectable and held without upkeep cost nor increasing the build cost by # of ships the empire has. Stuff like that would never occur to me, but I bet top players have been using it since forever.

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alleryn
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#12 Post by alleryn » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:22 pm

Teensy Juggernaut wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:30 pm
I'm sure the dedicated MP guys wish there was a initial saved queue for both production and resources (like saved ships are that auto-include themselves to available when the tech arrives) because they do the exact same things for those first 37 tech researches, regardless.
Hardly.
Species in every game and circumstances (availability of colonizable planets, proximity of monsters and enemies) in most games inform my first turn build and research choices, much less the first 30 (and i know some Sicilian Dragon lines 30 moves deep...).

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Oberlus
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Re: Exobot population on asteroids

#13 Post by Oberlus » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:33 pm

Teensy Juggernaut wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:30 pm
Stuff like that would never occur to me
Playing into packed galaxies with enemy HWs at 3-5 hops from yours help you sharpen your ingenuity. MP that does even better.

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