Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

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wobbly
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#46 Post by wobbly »

LienRag wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:45 pm
BlueAward wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:52 am So planet gets invaded and scrapping orders cancelled because that building now belongs to someone else. Gotta scrap sooner unfortunately
Since when ? I used to scrap the turn ships get into the system, and it worked fine.
Since as long as scrapping has existed? My troops were with the attacking fleet, rather then a turn behind

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#47 Post by LienRag »

Oh, that's it ?
GG then...
You made a daring push that I hadn't expected - especially not such a strong one that soon.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#48 Post by Oberlus »

GG already? Wow, that sounds a too soon.

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#49 Post by LienRag »

Well played, I mean.

wobbly
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#50 Post by wobbly »

Might be time to start praying to the squid gods for salvation.

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#51 Post by BlueAward »

Maybe to the great eye in the sky? :3

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#52 Post by LienRag »

wobbly wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:41 pm Might be time to start praying to the squid gods for salvation.
I guess the current disaster proves that I don't yet know how to play multiplayer FreeOrion (or at least not play against a rush, which alas is quite the same since it means that I'm at the mercy of my opponent's choice), but I also have to say that I'm impressed by the skill you deployed at "economy of forces", as Clausewitz advises.
You had very limited information from the scouts I let enter my territory and from the publicly displayed techs but you were able to decide from it how to push successfully into unknown forces and unseen systems; you fully deserve your victory.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#53 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:57 pm I guess the current disaster proves that I don't yet know how to play multiplayer FreeOrion (or at least not play against a rush, which alas is quite the same since it means that I'm at the mercy of my opponent's choice) [...]
You had very limited information from the scouts I let enter my territory and from the publicly displayed techs but you were able to decide from it how to push successfully into unknown forces and unseen systems; you fully deserve your victory.
You describe it as if wobbly jumped into an abyss with a knife in his teeth.
He couldn't scout your whole space, but what could he have found? Either strong defenses, and so he could retreat, or no defenses, and so he could win the game. So he choose to push with a lot of forces. Being production-beast Egassem, against research-beast Scylior, that makes sense regardless of the scouting.
Meanwhile, you choose to not build defenses and not scout, despite wobbly being production-beast Egassem, and you being research-beast Scylior. So I guess you can learn a few things from this game, in which you started close to a dangerous player with an invasion-oriented species:
- Don't rush late game techs before building a sizeable armada unless you are sure you can win the stealth-detection race.
- If you get attacked, build more ships, not bigger shipyards.
- Don't build mid game buildings next to the enemy (even if you plan to scrap them before they invade, what's the point of rushing an expensive tech and building only to lose it to your enemy?).

wobbly
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#54 Post by wobbly »

I generally don't like to fly blind, but with enough brute force you can do it. Under certain circumstances its a trade of risks. For instance it would of been over 10 turns for me to get a 2nd generation scout to the front line. Under those circumstances its safer for me to just hit hard and fast, rather then give you the time to build up defenses. Also there's plenty of stuff I can work out from partial information. Oberlus mentioned that building all those shipyards on the fulver colony was a big risk. Its not just a risk, it also tells me something. If I see that colony with just the base shipyard and an orbital drydock, then all of a sudden there's an asteroid shipyard and 2 organic shipyards, I know you just spent a bunch of PP on shipyards. I also know you didn't spend those PP on defenses. It's highly likely that the PP you are spending at that moment is on asteroid ship. ...at a shipyard I can blockade within 2 turns... hard to build if I've blockaded the production... Damn straight I'm going to risk flying blind. The only way you'd have had enough there is if you had o01eg's ships as well. I'd seen enough of his ships in the south to know he couldn't of lent you enough. Worst case scenario is you somehow had enough there to hold, and I'd still be dishing out a ton of damage. Plus I'm in a situation where if lose my whole fleet you'd still need to recover your old colonies before you can come after me in my own space.

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#55 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:16 pm you started close to a dangerous player with an invasion-oriented species:
(...)
- Don't build mid game buildings next to the enemy (even if you plan to scrap them before they invade, what's the point of rushing an expensive tech and building only to lose it to your enemy?).
I didn't understand that I was so close to the enemy, I don't play on such tiny Galaxies usually... And my scouts ran out of fuel before reaching Wobbly's space (when it stopped being true, it was too late).
"Build more ships" yes that's what I planned to do, once I got my shipyards. As I am (was ?) Scylior I believed that I had time to rush techs before building a military, getting a better return on investment on the production spent on the new ships.
Also I made a slight miscalculation on the Stability at Teka and was 1 level short of what I calculated, which made me just under GGG bonus, depriving me of the production I needed to snowball.

Apart from that, I may have made a strategic mistake by rushing the Hhoh to get their production, even before building a History Analyzer. The cost of the Troop Ships at beginning was horrendous (but I had no other Natives close enough).
And later I made a stupid mistake which lost me enough turns to start building ships before your attack, by diverting the Fulver somewhere which wasn't fitting (I forgot that Fulver are narrow tolerance).

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#56 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:51 pm I
TL:DR Egassem OP

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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#57 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:53 pm And later I made a stupid mistake which lost me enough turns to start building ships before your attack, by diverting the Fulver somewhere which wasn't fitting (I forgot that Fulver are narrow tolerance).
Ah, I did the same with the Egassem wobbly gifted me: I expanded them first to a radiated world (because it had fractal geodes) without checking habitability. They died.

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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#58 Post by BlueAward »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:55 pm
wobbly wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:51 pm I
TL:DR Egassem OP
Wobbly had Egassem last game too ;P different story though but not like he wasn't building a lot of military and pushing against me..

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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#59 Post by wobbly »

LienRag wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:53 pm Apart from that, I may have made a strategic mistake by rushing the Hhoh to get their production, even before building a History Analyzer. The cost of the Troop Ships at beginning was horrendous (but I had no other Natives close enough).
Get symbiots. The hull cost/troop slot is better then every hull other then purples. And organics are almost as cheap.

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-fourth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#60 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:55 pm TL:DR Egassem OP
In tiny galaxies with medium Natives, yes (not sure though whether Wobbly conquered Natives beyond the Acirema, which I would have had enough troops to conquer myself if I had seen them on time).
Not necessarily with other settings.
Without my mistakes and with a few more systems between us (and no easily conquerable natives in the no alien's land), it's not obvious that the result would have been the same.
Last edited by LienRag on Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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