Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

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drkosy
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#106 Post by drkosy »

But what I mostly can do with some regularity I think is play one turn in the morning, one around noon and one (or more) in the evening.
That is mostly true for me. Sometimes I have to work early on, so the login at morning doesn't work. But at the moment I can keep the 3 turns per day.

No alliance win unfortunally means, that you have to break peace at some moment. I don't like that, because I usually keep what I promise. But without experimentors you are forced to (besides technological win with takes ages)
Also, no specials ?
I guess it's fairer since it would make luck a more important factor, but specials are fun and make for strategic confrontations...
Same for me. I love specials, but luck plays a great game with that. Same with monsters. I love some systems guarded by monsters since that gives scouting a bit of thrill. Maybe the next game...

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Oberlus
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#107 Post by Oberlus »

drkosy wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:36 pm I love specials, but luck plays a great game with that. Same with monsters. I love some systems guarded by monsters since that gives scouting a bit of thrill. Maybe the next game...
Sure!
For multiplayer, what I like the most is specials, natives and monsters low.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#108 Post by o01eg »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:44 pm
drkosy wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:36 pm I love specials, but luck plays a great game with that. Same with monsters. I love some systems guarded by monsters since that gives scouting a bit of thrill. Maybe the next game...
Sure!
For multiplayer, what I like the most is specials, natives and monsters low.
For the next game I will return them back.
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LienRag
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#109 Post by LienRag »

Is there a way to allow "unable to colonize natives" only ?
They make for some diversity (and strategic topology) without making the game totally unbalanced due to luck...

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#110 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:19 am Diplomacy mechanics:
- You can select an empire in the Empire window, right-click and ask for peace (if at war), declare war or propose alliance (if at peace) or cancel alliance (if allied).
- Empires at peace won't shoot at each other, and can gift ships and planets (the receiver must have a ship or planet in the same system, right-click on the object to be gifted and select the receiving empire, ownage is updated when turn is processed).
- Allied empires share supply (but not resources, just the connections) and vision, and can gift planets.

Diplomacy rules:

Strictly speaking, the only forbidden thing to do is hacking the game to do something that isn't supposed to happen. If the game mechanics allow it, you can do it. So you can talk or be quiet, keep promises or lie.

Regarding social stuff, if you negotiate an agreement, speaking clearly, and you keep your word, and there are no misunderstandings, that will be memorable. If someone perceives your actions as a treason, that will be unforgettable.

I usually do intense diplomacy, meaning I PM people, propose alliances, partitions of space, rules about how and when to break alliance if it is not possible to win with alliance (this last part has failed miserably several times, meaning the former allies get mad at me once the alliance is broken because something wasn't clear, or I wasn't clear, and they felt betrayed), or just trying to get or share useful information. Other players, that do less or simpler diplomacy, seldom make anyone angry. If you do open war to everyone, no one will get mad at you, xD.
Thanks.
I was mostly asking about whether it's okay to make diplomacy through non-game channels (like PM in the forum) or if it's supposed to be entirely done inside the game (I wouldn't know how to send a PM in-game, though).

Also about whether RP is appreciated or frowned upon, and correlatively what's the consensus on insults.
On a previous MMOG I played, RP was an informal norm (though some players didn't care, and many used it as a thin veneer above very basic "I see it, I take it" behavior) and because of that insults were appreciated if they were clearly RP and creative (a bit like insult-fencing in Monkey Island, though I only read about it and never played this game), never targeting the player but only his game persona.

The only rule I would like to be agreed upon is that the Emperor and the Player are two different things, and nobody should begrudge one for the other.

For example, if a player has trouble IRL we can agree to stop the game until he gets better, if an Emperor makes a mistake there is no mercy to be expected towards him.
Oberlus wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:19 am On a related note:
For ring galaxies, the usual is that each player has one neighbor on each side. In games with no allied victory, apparently, the most successful strategy is to get one ally, to not bother guarding one of your sides, and focus on conquering the other neighbor. Late game, if your initial ally is the last remaining foe, you break alliance and go for sudden death.
Three or more players can get into an alliance, but the ones in the middle shall focus on peaceful expansion and will eventually need to attack one of the allies, and that will happen usually when that ally is fighting someone else. But it can work.
No alliance at all can work if you get ahead early on. Wobbly almost win last game doing that (swaq won surprisingly by conquering experimentors).
It seems to me that Ring Galaxy is not a proper setting for a real diplomatic game then ?
Very little creativity to be had there if I follow what you wrote...

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#111 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:01 pm I was mostly asking about whether it's okay to make diplomacy through non-game channels (like PM in the forum) or if it's supposed to be entirely done inside the game (I wouldn't know how to send a PM in-game, though).
IMO, trying to impose rules that can't be enforced makes little sense and only serves to give the "rebel" players more ways to hack the game and take advantage of the rule-followers.
Every channel is good.

There are no PM's in game, only whisper that can only be done when both players are online and will not be recorded (next time you connect they are lost).
Forum PMs and emails is nicer, IMO, for slow-game playing.


RP is not frowned upon AFAIK. Some players mostly RP, some nothing at all, but there is respect for each other.


The only player insulting (RP) in previous games was me, when I got Eaxaw or Trith and get into my total-ass-person, bragging about how I will butcher every inferior species in the galaxy, and not following political-correctism rules. Some other players, maybe from US or something, got a bit "wow... this guy crossing some lines" (at least that was my impression). Also, I got eliminated relatively quickly on all those occasions :mrgreen:

The only rule I would like to be agreed upon is that the Emperor and the Player are two different things, and nobody should begrudge one for the other.
That's a reasonable and fair rule. But you can't enforce it, even if everyone agrees to it, feelings can get into the way and there's little you can do about it.
In a previous game I "signed" a peace treaty with another player, Voker57 (I'm Spanish, he is Russian, quite different cultures; plus I am noob at mutiplayer and diplomacy games). I wanted him to ally me and swaq from start, plus another player of his choice (it was max 2 allies for victory). Turns passed by and he was still "not yet, I need to see how things develop". So I grow wary. Plus he was totally undefended and I was running out of planets to colonize, and swaq and I decided to throw out the treaty and conquer him. I gave him a 5 turn warning before attacking (game allows to break peace and attack in the same turn), he felt betrayed. We begin discussing if my (Oberlus? or Emperor?) choice was fair or I (Oberlus? or Emperor?) was a bullshitter and a lier that can't be trusted in. At some point I asked "wait, are you mad at me, the guy behind a keyboard, or at my Etty emperor?", and his answer was something about there is a meta game that is played outside and above the game, and he assured me he was never again in his life to sign a treaty with me because I can't be trusted. I ended up understanding he was mad at real me and I got mad at him and sent him some flying fucks to stick it up his ass (I have a fragile ego) and stopped joining the XMPP FreeOrion chatroom where he is a regular and an admin.

LienRag wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:01 pm It seems to me that Ring Galaxy is not a proper setting for a real diplomatic game then ?
Very little creativity to be had there if I follow what you wrote...
I disagree. It's quite intense IMO. Lot's of space to play honorably, manipulative or motherfucker.

Edit: also, ring galaxy tends to be more "fair". In most other galaxy shapes, some players, near center, get several neighbors and some, in the outskirts, get only one or two. The central players have a harder time to survive because they get attacked by several empires from several directions.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#112 Post by LienRag »

Today (sunday) I have a family event and will probably not be able to play at noon.
I may play one turn around 7-9 h GMT if there is one to play and it doesn't require too much deep thinking, and in the evening I'll probably be able to play normally.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#113 Post by Oberlus »

The Herd Chronicles

During generations, the interstellar hive-mind entity self-named George has terrorized our kind, demanding us to freeze and submit to its terrible aggressions, and accusing us of misbehaviour from trying to resist its invasion, adding insults to injury in a twisted attempt to torture our minds.
Now, we are ready to confront this threat and stand up against George's evilness. Congratulate, herdians, because unity against oppression will prevail. Fair retribution is on its way!

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LienRag
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#114 Post by LienRag »

To all Emperors of the Galaxy :

We/I have been recently (and painfully) made aware that not everybody is George¹, so we/I make this call on official channels for those who do not share thoughts naturally.

A specter haunts the Galaxy, the specter of an all-planets Empire.

Our neighbour, who pretended to be George but recently revealed that he is instead Gysache², is treacherously attacking us/me.

You may think it does not concern you or even applause him out of Georgephobia, but you would be wrong : if he gets his hand on one of our beloved Tundra, and even if he is clearly not able to appreciate the magnificence of the icy methane storms as they glide on the frozen nitrogen lakes (I nearly pity the fool for such inability to see true beauty), he will soon be able to colonize all planets on the Galaxy, except maybe Gas Giants and Asteroid Belts.

Do you really want to be the one to welcome your new Gysache overlord ?

This shall not pass !
Now is the moment to stop the new three-eyed tyranny in its cradle !
Our forces are courageously doing their parts to defend noble Perth, but they will not hold indefinitely without help, and if they fail long enough for the Wild Herd to bring unwilling Georges to their foul Empire, then all hope is lost.

Demand of compensations for your help is to be addressed to the relevant Imperial Administrative Office for Applicants accompanied by preferred form of help and an estimation of the amount of help you think you can bring in a timely manner.



¹ This is a new concept that we/I am still processing, but a George has to adapt to the reality when the reality is shown to him.

² We/I always wondered how a George could live on a swamp, we/I guess we/I have the answer now : he is not a real George ! Maybe that was also why we/I couldn't share our thoughts with him and sense his treason.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#115 Post by Oberlus »

Iff Bobit doesn't make it before next turn, should we pause the game or something?
If he shows up and asks for a rewind and we grant it, it would be awkward for those of us that are fighting.
If he doesn't show up because something got in the way, we could be indefinitely playing a single turn per day.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#116 Post by o01eg »

Oberlus wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:57 am Iff Bobit doesn't make it before next turn, should we pause the game or something?
If he shows up and asks for a rewind and we grant it, it would be awkward for those of us that are fighting.
If he doesn't show up because something got in the way, we could be indefinitely playing a single turn per day.
I've sent him PM.
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#117 Post by Oberlus »

I think we need to agree on rules for this kind of situation (i.e. player doesn't show up), at least for next game.

I suggest the following (let's discuss):

- If a player asks for it in advance, game can be paused (maximum time?).
- If a player has problems to connect to the server (maybe OTPs not arriving) and misses a turn, game can rewind a single turn.
- If a player has IRL problems, can't connect and can't/won't tell us in advance, after two (three? five?) missed turns the player's empire concedes (server manager --o01eg-- does it, or something is implemented in the server to make it automatic).

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#118 Post by o01eg »

Oberlus wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:48 pm I think we need to agree on rules for this kind of situation (i.e. player doesn't show up), at least for next game.

I suggest the following (let's discuss):

- If a player asks for it in advance, game can be paused (maximum time?).
- If a player has problems to connect to the server (maybe OTPs not arriving) and misses a turn, game can rewind a single turn.
- If a player has IRL problems, can't connect and can't/won't tell us in advance, after two (three? five?) missed turns the player's empire concedes (server manager --o01eg-- does it, or something is implemented in the server to make it automatic).
First two cases are same for me, a player tells us something got wrong.

I could also propose yet another choice for missing player, before forcing his empire to concede we can try to find another player for his empire.
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#119 Post by LienRag »

o01eg wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:55 pm First two cases are same for me, a player tells us something got wrong.
Not entirely : first one is the player's responsibility (doesn't mean we can't be kind to him though of course), second one is a technical problem he may have no control over, so it's at least partly the server's host responsibility (or at minimum, it may be, and we'll know only when the problem is solved).
So the answer can't be entirely the same, we can't necessarily extend our patience indefinitely in the first case (at least it should be based on everybody's agreement, not a general rule) and it's unfair to cut the player if the technical difficulties are not his fault.

o01eg wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:55 pm I could also propose yet another choice for missing player, before forcing his empire to concede we can try to find another player for his empire.
I think that should be an option chosen by each player before the game begins, after N turns missed, should the Empire : 1 - concede, 2 - stay in the game in automatic mode (end turn automatically when other players have ended their turns) as long as the player doesn't show up, or 3 - be given to another player.
Also, what happens if the Empire is given to another player and the first player comes back ? That should be made clear too.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#120 Post by Oberlus »

Getting back to Bobit: two missed turns, soon a third.

Whoever is close to his empire in this game, have you engaged in combat? is the empire suffering attacks while the player is MIA? If not, we can wait a bit more without pausing game, I guess, until Bobit shows up or we do something about it. Otherwise (if Bobit is under attack) I think we should pause game and decide what to do with Bobit's empire. It won't be nice any way, because it will mean cheap advantage for Bobit's neighbors, but at least we won't be playing 1 turn a day.

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