The Trayeggadora

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Sandlapper
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Re: The Trayeggadora

#31 Post by Sandlapper » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:12 pm

Another image of an elderly, veteran warrior, perhaps an old, retired Fleet Admiral.
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Elderly Warrior
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pd
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Re: The Trayeggadora

#32 Post by pd » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:43 pm

The lighting is quite bad and could easily be improved by using a second and a third light source. Add a fill and a rim light for example. Detailing is overdone and doesn't serve a special purpose. Try working out some actual anatomy indication, no meaningless bumps. The mouth/teeth area is bothering me most regarding anatomy.
Overall the guy would benefit if there were areas with tight small details constrasting large open, less detailed areas. Some indication of materials would help so much as well! You don't have to texture everything, you can go a long way by just using grey materials, but a variety of shiny and diffuse makes a great difference. Having a properly reflective eye adds a soul to the character. The mouth and teeth should be wet and some reflective parts in the cloth make sense as well.

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eleazar
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Re: The Trayeggadora

#33 Post by eleazar » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:29 pm

pd wrote:The lighting is quite bad....
umm, you realize you are critiquing something that obiwan did 4 years ago, and sandlapper has found the images and reposted them? I really don't think obiwan is interested in reworking them.

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Re: The Trayeggadora

#34 Post by pd » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:02 pm

Umm, providing critique never hurts and might help others to avoid similar mistakes. I doubt the two last ones are from 4 years ago, btw.

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Sandlapper
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Re: The Trayeggadora

#35 Post by Sandlapper » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:21 am

Yes, they are from 4 years ago. However, the last one, and maybe the second one, also, were never posted on the forum at that time. We were told at the time that it was not a current priority, and wouldn't be until V0.8 came around. Obiwan and I worked on ideas together, very briefly, in 2004. It was his idea to add a moderate aquatic dimension to the race's features, evolving my sloth-like race into half sloth/half otter in appearance. I remember a body rendering he did with a 'Trag' warrior firing multiple hand weapons at one time.

I'm very happy with his concept rendering, it 'feels' right to me. Unfortunately, Obiwan hasn't returned here since late 2004. He also did several other concepts, including the Tusk race (which brought the broken links to my attention)

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Re: The Trayeggadora

#36 Post by shrinkshooter » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:35 pm

pd wrote:Umm, providing critique never hurts and might help others to avoid similar mistakes.
Sometimes. But aside from that, this model is very well done, at least for this project. Obviously someone spent a lot of time on this, a lot more than they "had" to. Critiques are good, at least when people actually take them into account. But it couldn't hurt to praise something every once in a blue moon, or at least not totally glance over everything that is done well. Good critiques don't only involve what's wrong with a project, it involves what's right so the author of the work knows what features to keep and continues to use certain techniques in the future, because it works for him/her/the project material.
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pd
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Re: The Trayeggadora

#37 Post by pd » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:07 pm

If I see great work, I'll maybe praise it. If I see average work I'll point out what can be done to achieve better results. Obviously there will be people with a different POV, who consider good, what I think is average or bad. I can't help this. But I know, that every serious artist will agree - praising doesn't help, pointing out mistakes does. All work can get better, so critique is always appropriate. I expect people to deal with it professionally and to not take it personal.
this model is very well done, at least for this project. Obviously someone spent a lot of time on this, a lot more than they "had" to.
There is no minimum effort required, but I'll always compare things to professional work. It's best to have high expectations and aim for them, instead of settling for average work because this is "just a hobby project". As mentioned in the guidelines, this project is approached in a professional manner.

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eleazar
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Re: The Trayeggadora

#38 Post by eleazar » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:43 am

pd wrote:If I see great work, I'll maybe praise it. If I see average work I'll point out what can be done to achieve better results...
Why not point out what needs to be fixed, and what's what's good and needs to be kept or strengthened?
pd wrote:But I know, that every serious artist will agree - praising doesn't help, pointing out mistakes does. All work can get better, so critique is always appropriate. I expect people to deal with it professionally and to not take it personal.
Every serious artist does not agree. Intelligently pointing out what's right with a piece of art can be just has helpful for improving it as pointing out what's wrong. I know as i was learning, i'd frequently improve on my previous best— but wouldn't understand why it was better. It was just as useful for my teachers to explain the good as to explain the bad.

Besides people are human. It's easy for them to ignore criticism if they believe (rightly or wrongly) that the critique-giver is incapable of positive remarks.

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Re: The Trayeggadora

#39 Post by pd » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:30 am

You both make it sound, as if I never provide positive remarks, just because I didn't in this case. If you feel there is something good to say about those pieces, that needs praise, then why don't you do it, instead of concerning me because you feel I'm to harsh? I've just pointed out some really simple things and concepts, that would improve the images so much. It's bothering me that those tools aren't taken advantage of.

Saying the model is very well done and someone has spent a lot of time on it equals saying nothing. It's praise, that I personally don't need.
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Re: The Trayeggadora

#40 Post by shrinkshooter » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:59 pm

eleazar wrote:
pd wrote:If I see great work, I'll maybe praise it. If I see average work I'll point out what can be done to achieve better results...
Why not point out what needs to be fixed, and what's what's good and needs to be kept or strengthened?
That's exactly what I meant, for the same reasons eleazar gave. However, as I am not interested in exercises in futility, I'm pretty much done with this topic. It's not hard to see this is going nowhere, to my disappointment.
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pd
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Re: The Trayeggadora

#41 Post by pd » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:40 pm

Indeed, this is going nowhere. Funny though, how I am still the only one actually providing help, yet I'm being concerned for the way I'm doing it.

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Re: The Trayeggadora

#42 Post by shrinkshooter » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:51 pm

pd wrote:I am still the only one actually providing help
For this. After seeing the post that this work is four years old, I figured any comments I have on the picture won't amount to much unless someone actually had the file to alter it (and the skills to do so). Obiwan hasn't been around since 2005, and to be honest I think the only person who could make this model better would be you. So no, I didn't provide any help because 1) you already did and 2) my suggestions probably wouldn't matter unless someone actually had the file and skills to make the changes.

I (and others) have been giving critiques here and there for graphics icons.
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Re: The Trayeggadora

#43 Post by Sandlapper » Fri May 02, 2008 4:03 am

Reposting, from four years ago (link broken), Obiwan's Tanglewood Forest concept for the Trayeggadoran Homeworld.
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