Multiple Galaxies?

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Skaro
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Multiple Galaxies?

#1 Post by Skaro » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:22 pm

EDIT: Split from Alternate Backstory (with an eye toward Gameplay


I just had a idea for the campaign which could work well with the alternate backstory.

Now here's the idea, let's say there's 5 galaxies in the Free Orion Campaign.

Four of these galaxies are smaller galaxies, in the middle we have a huge (empty) galaxy. So, all the "new" races come from the smaller galaxies and fight over their home galaxy. Each Galaxy has a few races in it (depending on how many races will make it into the game). The Huge galaxy used to be the home of the ancient races which eleazar described.

During the first campaign you and the other races discover that there is a hidden ancient colonyship that can travel from galaxy to galaxy. But you'll have to find it first, to get it you need to either conquer all the other races or retrieve certain artifacts to locate the ship. A allied victory will also do.

Getting the ship will allow you and your allies to travel to a galaxy of your choosing. You could pick a small galaxy and perhaps pick up some new technologies and ancient artifacts, or you could go directly to the center galaxy. In the center galaxy you'll find the Orion system. Any research done up to this point will be transferred to the next galaxy.

However, the center galaxy is swarming with guardians, automated defenses and various types of spacemonsters. Your techlevel might not be advanced enought to survive here. You'll also be facing races from different galaxies that also travelled here.

Each of the other smaller galaxies also have a ancient colonyship. The only problem is that you'll be facing empires that have already expanded. Additionally you'd have to face the possibility that one of the other races has already used their colonyship to travel to the huge galaxy. Though you might still get a colonyship in this galaxy if it hasn't been discovered yet, you'd be able to dispatch this colonyship along with the one you already have to get more starting planets.

In short these are your options:

Go to a smaller galaxy:
- Start with a few planets and face greatly expanded empires.
- You can bring your allies with you (if you have any). Though this will influence the number of planets you start out with.
- Potentially get a additional colonyship to colonize more starting planets in one of the other galaxies.
- Get new and exotic technologies that aren't available in your own galaxy.
- Make new allies and take them with you to other galaxies.
- Miss out on a chance to get a additional colonyship. A enemy race could already be expanding in the huge galaxy at this point.

Go to the huge galaxy:
- Start with a few planets and face various automated defenses, guardians and whatnot. These guys have a edge in both offensive and defensive capabilities.
- Get more access to ancient technologies, these techs are all over the place.
- Potentially face enemies from different galaxies (if you didn't defeat them in their home galaxies).
- Run into the remnants of a race that already travelled to this galaxy and got slaughtered (you'll be able to reverse engineer some of their tech).
- You can bring your allies with you (if you have any). Though this will influence the number of planets you start out with. And you'll probably have less allies if you haven't visited any other galaxies.
- Conquer Orion and get access to all the super techs (and win the game). Well, you'd essentially win the game anyway if you'd conquer the large galaxy.
- Races that got here earlier will have more planets then you and more access to ancient tech (if you went to a smaller galaxy). That is ofcourse if they haven't been killed yet.


Now, this could be worked into the story quite nicely. The ancient races were warring amongst each other across various galaxies. Their home galaxy was biggest battle ground of all. The smaller galaxies weren't all that important, so only little of their tech ended up in them.

The ancient colonyships could have potentially been planted by the mysterious forces that are responsible for the monoliths.

Orion is seemingly at the center of it all, it should be further explored in a more epic storyline.


At the end we should have a big reveal over what happend:
- The reason why Orion is so important.
- Who the ancients were and what happend to them.
- The origin of the monoliths and colonyships.
- Various sidestories that are tied into the main campaign (ofcourse dependant on the race and the decisions the player made).

Any thoughts on this?
A sucking chest wound is Nature's way of telling you to slow down. --Murphy's war laws

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Josh
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Multiple Alternate Galaxies in FO

#2 Post by Josh » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:17 am

The idea of multiple galaxies in FO is a recurring theme on the forums. What's the word on having multiple alternate galaxies in single game of FO? Every time someone suggests this, I think of Arcanus/Myrror world in Master of Magic.

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Re: Multiple Alternate Galaxies in FO

#3 Post by Skaro » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:32 pm

Josh wrote:The idea of multiple galaxies in FO is a recurring theme on the forums. What's the word on having multiple alternate galaxies in single game of FO? Every time someone suggests this, I think of Arcanus/Myrror world in Master of Magic.
It seems to me to be a good reason to load new levels to progress in what is essentially a campaign of galactic conquest.

Just consider the storyline possibilties when you can segment certain aspects in various areas. Some sidestories that are tied into locations might never come to pass this way or alternately they couldn't have been avoided.

I suppose that we'd have to script in tons of potential scenarios and a number of story arcs to give the game a truely epic feel.
A sucking chest wound is Nature's way of telling you to slow down. --Murphy's war laws

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Re: Alternate Backstory (with an eye toward Gameplay)

#4 Post by pd » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:49 pm

What's the word on having multiple alternate galaxies in single game of FO?
Not gonna happen. What is the gameplay benefit? What is the difference to just starting a new game, with different starting conditions?

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Re: Alternate Backstory (with an eye toward Gameplay)

#5 Post by Skaro » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:02 pm

pd wrote:
What's the word on having multiple alternate galaxies in single game of FO?
Not gonna happen. What is the gameplay benefit? What is the difference to just starting a new game, with different starting conditions?
Let's see:

- You'd start from scratch and thus lose all the tech you researched previously.
- Any storyline would essentially reboot, you'd never have a chance to expand and add depth to what is happening.
- Not everyone likes a sandbox type game, going to different places and potentially returning also adds more strategic elements to the game.
- I've often conquered all the other species in various 4X games. At that point I had a kickass fleet along with a strong industrial base. Getting new challanges that late in the game would be welcome in the form of a new galaxy for you to conquer.
- Multi galaxy campaigns would last a lot longer (depending on the size of the galaxies).
- You could go on a exodus if you're losing in your current galaxy, you could return after building up strength (Homeworld anyone?).
A sucking chest wound is Nature's way of telling you to slow down. --Murphy's war laws

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Re: Alternate Backstory (with an eye toward Gameplay)

#6 Post by General_Zaber » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:49 am

Well, you raise a few good points, but keep in mind that if you run out of things to do in one galaxy, starting with a dominant position in another will only give you less time before you reach the same position again. Personally I'd prefer it if all your colonies started to rebel once your empire got large enough, and the rebellions would only get larger and more powerful as your all-powerful super-empire developed grudges from all its past enemies.

Perhaps if you achieve your vistory conditions you should have a window open or something allowing you to continue the game as a sandbox, have the majority of your empire rebel against you, or start a new game with a sizable portion of your current tech level and perhaps a fleet of some of your largest ships but still with only your one world like you usually do.
The enemy is retreating! As always, there is no cuteness about them. Dammit

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Re: Alternate Backstory (with an eye toward Gameplay)

#7 Post by pd » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:37 pm

There is only one gameplay reason in your list and that is "It adds more strategic elements". Before I'm getting to this, I'd like to say that there have to be limits at how big the universe is. Adding multiple universes, besides messing with the fundamental codebase of freeOrion, will come at the cost of processing power. How many more stars do you want to add? How many more AIs should be processed? As I understand it, you'd like to have a handful galaxies in a single universe. This won't be enough for the next guy coming along, who things, it would be much more epic and allow for a better storyline and probably provide more strategic elements, if we add 10, 20 or 50 galaxies. Where does this end?

This is definitely the wrong kind of thinking. FreeOrion creates galaxies with as much as 500 stars(wow!). Before we ask for more galaxies, we should try to really flesh out the single galaxy we have. We should develop as much strategic potential and variety as possible with a single galaxy.

A possible way to do something similar is creating galaxies, that have a couple of clusters. The starlanes connecting those clusters might be hidden until late game or might have to be build by the player.

If you want to discuss this in detail, I suggest opening a thread in brainstorming.

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Re: Alternate Backstory (with an eye toward Gameplay)

#8 Post by Krikkitone » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:59 pm

As for the endings I think they should be based on the gameplay itself

1. control the whole map (either through conquest or Diplomacy... should be two routes to the same goal)
2. escape the map*

*I think the player SHOULD be able to 'leave the galaxy' near the top of the tech tree. but that would be the win condition... essentially achieving a full scale intergalactic travel [thereby making you like the precursors.]

This means that things like multiple galaxies/universes are not necessary because they are what end the game

I DO like the idea of multiple clusters though... similar to the idea of multiple continents in civ type games... there becomes an "exploration hump" that you need to get over, even if you have explored/conquered your own continent, you can go for other ones (which may be empty for colonization/exploration or may have new options for diplomacy/conquest)

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Re: Alternate Backstory (with an eye toward Gameplay)

#9 Post by utilae » Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:24 am

pd wrote: This won't be enough for the next guy coming along, who things, it would be much more epic and allow for a better storyline and probably provide more strategic elements, if we add 10, 20 or 50 galaxies. Where does this end?
I think a max of 10 galaxies should be enough for anyone.

I would like it if there were other galaxies, simply for the fact that you could have an intergalactic engine type that allows travel to other galaxies. Plus scenarios such as "winner of that galaxy race" invading our galaxy - band together in an alliance to stop the invaders!!!

Other universes would be cool too. Ideally, you would have two other universes and no more. Each would have X galaxies within. Each would have a different laws of physics eg startrek fluid space, babylon 5 hyperspace and real space as examples.

Overall I would say you would have a limit on how many galaxies there are, eg 10 and distribute them between different universe/dimension types eg 3 galaxies in normal dimension. 2 galaxies in weird dimension A and 5 galaxies in weird dimension B.

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