Master List of New Native Species

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labgnome
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Master List of New Native Species

#1 Post by labgnome »

So I know that this is out of form. However I have been thinking about the current state of native species in that game. After many of the native species were converted into playable species this left a lot of variety lacking in that area.

While I would love to give a lot of time and attention to creating individual species, I feel that at this juncture we could use the variety even at the expense of detail. This is a first draft of sorts so feel free to provide feedback, especially on the details of individual species. My allocation of traits is largely random. However I did try to follow some rules, like giving each the three main metabolisms good research, industry and influence. I also divided the habitability wheel into thirds, and gave one third to primarily one of the three main metabolisms. There are also "nest tender" species for the space monsters as an idea, and a couple of species that come along with planetary specials.

Terran:
  • Oplavian: Telepathic, Good Pilots, Bad Attack Troops, Organic
  • Quelexion: Good Defense Troops, Bad Industry, No Ships, Organic
  • Rygroni: Bad Pilots, Planetbound, Organic
  • Dinustrian: Great Industry, Planetbound, No Ships, Organic
  • Tremerean: Planetbound, No Ships, Good Industry, Great Stealth, Lithic
  • Enthana: Bad Population, Phototrophic
Ocean:
  • Balthroian: Good Industry, No Ships, Organic
  • Delphinae: Telepathic, Great Pilots, Planetbound, Organic
  • Erserach: Great Research, Planetbound, No Ships, Organic
  • Ventalean: Planetbound, No Ships, Great Stealth, No Industry, Lithic
  • Reaphora: Telepathic, Good Detection, Phototrophic
Swamp:
  • Sevorian: Good Research, Planetbound, Organic
  • Ninfluin: Great Influence, Planetbound, No Ships, Organic
  • Myukymyre: No Industry, Good Influence, Lithic
  • Dryandan: Good Defense Troops, No Ships, Phototrophic
Toxic:
  • Gamax: Planetbound, No Ships, Great Industry, Robotic
  • Melexean: Telepathic, Good Attack Troops, Lithic
  • Syrtax: Good Defense Troops, Planetbound, Lithic
  • Throg: Good Influence, No Ships, Lithic
  • Toxarian: No Ships, Planetbound, Good Defense Troops, Great Influence, Lithic
  • Hyponarian: No Ships, Phototrophic
Inferno:
  • Nightsiders: Planetbound, Great Detection, Tidally Locked Special, Organic
  • Birexian: Planetbound, No Ships, Bad Detection, Robotic
  • Zenothoan: Telepathic, Good Industry, No Ships, Lithic
  • Thermelite: Great Pilots, Planetbound, Lithic
  • Magmarian: Planetbound, No Ships, Good Defense Troops, Great Research, Lithic
  • Pauliaxian: Planetbound, No Ships, Good Influence, Phototrophic
  • Pyralian: Planetbound, No Ships, Bad Population, Self-Sustaining
Radiated:
  • Elovian: Good Detection, Good Pilots, Lithic
  • Zyrtaxian: No Influence, Planetbound, Lithic
  • Vredulonian: Good Research, No Ships, Lithic
  • Crigg: Planetbound, No Ships, Telepathic, Good Defense Troops, Great Industry, Lithic
  • Xelemate: Planetbound, Good Pilots, Phototrophic
  • Radarian: Planetbound, No Ships, Great Influence, Self-Sustaining
Barren:
  • WhizOne: Good Pilots, Robotic
  • Zedulor: Great Fuel, Planetbound, Robotic
  • Optitron: Good Industry, No Research, No Ships, Robotic
  • Selenvore: Planetbound, No Ships, Good Industry, Lithic
  • Phototron: Planetbound, No Ships, Great Industry, Phototrophic
Tundra:
  • Sleeper: Planetbound, Bad Population, Good Industry, Eccentric Orbit Special, Organic
  • P-Robo: Good Fuel, Great Detection, Robotic
  • Omegan: Telepathic, Good Research, No Industry, No Ships, Robotic
  • Praxitron: Planetbound, Robotic
  • Cybrinex: Planetbound, No Ships, No Influence, Robotic
  • *Snowflake Caretakers: Planetbound, No Ships, Snowflake Nest Special, Lithic
  • Licharei: No Ships, Bad Population, Phototrophic
*Maybe spawn at the snowflake nest special like a guardian

Desert:
  • Alphamax: Good Research, Bad Pilots, Robotic
  • R'vorian: Good Detection, No Influence, No Ships, Robotic
  • Liroxion: Planetbound, Robotic
  • Expronian: Planetbound, No Ships, No Industry, Robotic
  • Mesana: Planetbound, No Ships, Bad Stealth, Bad Population, Great Industry, Lithic
  • Khakturian: Planetbound, Great Attack Troops, Great Defense Troops, Phototrophic
Asteroid Belt:
  • *Juggernaut Tender: Planetbound, No Ships, Juggernaut Nest Special, Organic
  • Astrolith: Good Population, Lithic
  • Celestephyte: No Ships, Telepathic, Phototrophic
  • Quandrian: Planetbound, Great Stealth, Self-Sustaining
*Maybe spawn at the Juggernaut Nest Special like a guardian

Gas Giant:
  • PraethenoveranTelepathic, Bad Population, Gaseous
  • Mantarian: Planetbound, Good Pilots, Gaseous
  • Primaveon: Bad Industry, Bad Research, Bad Influence, No Ships, Gaseous
  • *Kraken Flea: Planetbound, No Ships, Kraken Nest Special, Gaseous
  • Thenian: Planetbound, No Ships, Good Research, Gaseous
  • Undarean: Planetbound, No Ships, Good Industry, Gaseous
  • Oraklean: Planetbound, No Ships, Good Influence, Gaseous
*Maybe spawn at the Kraken Nest special like a guardian

My hope is for this to be a collaborative project to flesh out these species and add as many of them as possible to the game. In that spirit if you want to adopt a species and flesh out a story to go with them please feel free to do so. Also I don't know how balanced all of these guys all are so this
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.

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labgnome
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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#2 Post by labgnome »

Oplavian
A physically weak and naturally docile species. Oplavians use their telepathy to help them pilot ships.

Quelexion
A species of fearsome environmentalists. They dislike industry and will defend their planets with determination.

Rygroni
Pacifisic symbiotic species, who cannot breed off of their planet.

Dinustrian
An isolationists species with a highly industrial society.

Tremerean
A subterranean species that lives deep below the surface.

Enthana
Slow-growing intelligent plants.
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LienRag
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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#3 Post by LienRag »

Nice to have more species obviously, there's been work done on new major traits, but I think what is needed is also secondary traits (I call them "flavor" traits elsewhere) like small bonus that makes them a bit different but not enough to makes it unbalancing.

Flat bonus tied to a specific technology are an example (+3 damage to Mass Drivers), for No Ship species things like an interstellar lighthouse-like speed boost around their planet (only for allied ships), a happiness boost to planets in the same system, an affinity to certain planet size or startype or special (nothing major, a one-time +1 population bonus or maybe +1 supply bonus on systems with asteroid belts or a +2 Production bonus on tidally locked rotation).

Maybe they could even give small Empire-wide bonus ? Like good Xentronium smiths would make all Xentronium armor produced in an Empire that integrates this specie 31 strong instead of 30 strong ?

That would help make your Myukymure something else than slightly-twisted Silexian - though I note that you took efforts to not make any of your new specie too similar to an existing one.

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labgnome
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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#4 Post by labgnome »

LienRag wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 1:52 pm Nice to have more species obviously, there's been work done on new major traits, but I think what is needed is also secondary traits (I call them "flavor" traits elsewhere) like small bonus that makes them a bit different but not enough to makes it unbalancing.
A couple of points.

Firstly these species are meant to fill out the gaps in the current game as it stands, not necessarily to give "flavor".

Secondly flavor traits like you describe are better fits for playable species, than for non-playable species.

That would help make your Myukymure something else than slightly-twisted Silexian - though I note that you took efforts to not make any of your new specie too similar to an existing one.
I did try to make them different. However there are bound to be similarities between species if we have enough of them. BTW: how are they like silexians?

FYI: you seem interested in the Myukymyre,, if you or anyone else watching this thread want to "adopt" the sentient mud-creatures or any of the other species feel free to do so. Heck feel free to add or remove traits, just please try to limit it to existing or upcoming traits. Nothing more wild than what's being discussed in this thread here. If you want a more "flavorful" native species please try to make your own.
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LienRag
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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#5 Post by LienRag »

labgnome wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:34 pm A couple of points.

Firstly these species are meant to fill out the gaps in the current game as it stands, not necessarily to give "flavor".
I'm not sure what you mean by "filling the gaps" ? I you mean having a full matrix of "Metabolism x Planet Environment x Main Trait" I'm not convinced that it's a good idea...
I mean, yes more species are good, but as long as we have a few species per environment, a few by metabolism, and at least one per trait, then filling the matrix does not bring much to the gameplay itself and the "holes" in that matrix seem to me quite interesting for the flavor of the game.

It is my opinion (and from what I read not only mine) that apart from a few strategic roles that are mostly filled by the species already existing, the main use of new Native species is to add flavor to the game.
Isn't that your understanding ? What would be the main use for new Native species that you would see ? If it's "filling the gaps" as you said above, could you elaborate on what you mean and why you consider they need to be filled ?


labgnome wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:34 pm Secondly flavor traits like you describe are better fits for playable species, than for non-playable species.

I think that I understand what you mean, and I agree for some of those "flavor" traits.
Like the "prescience" trait that you developed on another topic, and maybe some like "affinity to a hull line".

But not for all (like the speed-bonus on close starlanes, that may be overpowered for a specie able to colonize planets), and more importantly, planet-bound species do not need the balance that is imperative for playable species, so they are a good testbed for new "flavor" traits (the only thing that need balance in planetbound species is, if they can build ships, that they do not turn to be ultimate warriors with good pilots, gunners, shields, fuel, armor and speed).


labgnome wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:34 pm
LienRag wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 1:52 pm That would help make your Myukymure something else than slightly-twisted Silexian - though I note that you took efforts to not make any of your new specie too similar to an existing one.
I did try to make them different. However there are bound to be similarities between species if we have enough of them.

Indeed, and that is the problem.
We have, as I understand it, enough existing species for the game mechanisms in place (there is a need for a few species that will use the new Influence mechanism, but there is work in progress about that if I understand correctly).

New species are mostly needed to improve the immersion, and as such they will need a very distinctive "feel", something that is difficult to explain rationally.

Creating such immersion-improving "feel" about a new specie is very hard, and I have no idea of how to do it. The only ideas I have for new species that have some original flavor come from fiction works that are under copyright, so it is probably a bad idea to implement them in a game under GPL.

Maybe we can ask Bestiary or other graphical artists if they have visual concepts that we could work from to elaborate a really original background for new species, and then choose traits accordingly ?


labgnome wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:34 pm
LienRag wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 1:52 pm That would help make your Myukymure something else than slightly-twisted Silexian - though I note that you took efforts to not make any of your new specie too similar to an existing one.
BTW: how are they like silexians?

Actually I tried to find clearer similarities between existing species and the one you proposed, to no avail.
That is another proof of the commendable efforts you have made in your designs, actually.

The similarity I see with Silexians is that they're a no-industry specie on an organic-like planet, but indeed there are as much differences as there are similarities.


labgnome wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:34 pm FYI: you seem interested in the Myukymyre,, if you or anyone else watching this thread want to "adopt" the sentient mud-creatures or any of the other species feel free to do so. Heck feel free to add or remove traits, just please try to limit it to existing or upcoming traits. Nothing more wild than what's being discussed in this thread here. If you want a more "flavorful" native species please try to make your own.

Not particularly, actually I do like Ourbools, Sly, Banforo, Kilandow (for probably very subjective reasons), maybe Mu Ursh, and I see the "strangeness" of Ugmors, Acirema and Laenfa which is fitting for a Science Fiction game (maybe the same goes for the Nymm, Fifty-Seven and Silexian), but don't get a real "flavor" out other races, existing or in your proposition.
If I come with ideas for any of your races (or a new one) I'll certainly let you know, but right now I'm quite dry.

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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#6 Post by LienRag »

labgnome wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:34 pm
FYI: you seem interested in the Myukymyre,, if you or anyone else watching this thread want to "adopt" the sentient mud-creatures or any of the other species feel free to do so. Heck feel free to add or remove traits, just please try to limit it to existing or upcoming traits. Nothing more wild than what's being discussed in this thread here. If you want a more "flavorful" native species please try to make your own.
Well, now that I think about it, having Lithic life in swamps is a bit strange as they will tend to get broken apart by water flows, buried by sedimentation, used as fodder by aquatic plants, and so on.
So maybe explaining how they came to sentience in such an environment and how they are able to prevent such perils can help flesh them out a little bit ?

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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#7 Post by labgnome »

LienRag wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 10:31 pm Well, now that I think about it, having Lithic life in swamps is a bit strange as they will tend to get broken apart by water flows, buried by sedimentation, used as fodder by aquatic plants, and so on.
So maybe explaining how they came to sentience in such an environment and how they are able to prevent such perils can help flesh them out a little bit ?
Well the idea for them comes form the clay hypothesis for the origin of life. However most are not nearly so fleshed-out. Again, if they strike your fancy, please take them up. I will likely only be able to give them a one or two-sentence blurb.
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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#8 Post by LienRag »

labgnome wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 1:01 pm
LienRag wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 10:31 pm Well, now that I think about it, having Lithic life in swamps is a bit strange as they will tend to get broken apart by water flows, buried by sedimentation, used as fodder by aquatic plants, and so on.
So maybe explaining how they came to sentience in such an environment and how they are able to prevent such perils can help flesh them out a little bit ?
Well the idea for them comes form the clay hypothesis for the origin of life. However most are not nearly so fleshed-out. Again, if they strike your fancy, please take them up. I will likely only be able to give them a one or two-sentence blurb.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that Clay Hypothesis, very interesting fluff indeed...
Maybe you can elaborate on that part and flesh out some social consequences of this evolutionary path ?

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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#9 Post by stpa »

LienRag wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 10:57 pm Creating such immersion-improving "feel" about a new specie is very hard, and I have no idea of how to do it. The only ideas I have for new species that have some original flavor come from fiction works that are under copyright, so it is probably a bad idea to implement them in a game under GPL.
i am uncertain as to how far an imaginary species from fiction really could be copyrighted and in what jurisdictions. this would imply that much of fan-fiction-dom is illegal as well? we can clearly not just copy paste from sources, but i would argue we can make up our own stories in someone elses scifi-universe (especially as a not-for-profit) – otherwise we should maybe remove the humans from the game since they appear in many copyrighted works of fiction as well. i would hate to argue something like that in court though, so probably better to err on the safe side.

edit:
some examples: elves, dragons, dwarves, they all appear in the lord of rings so they must be copyrighted? … there is a compressed neutronium disk in pratchett's disc world precursor book so we can't use neutronium?, start trek uses warp engines so we can't have those? that dragon tooth, i could swear i know that from voyager, and i seem to recall a space amoeba with captain picard in its stomach and the whole starship and starbases thing, need i go on?
what i ment to say. would it be really breaking the copyrightlaws of any place on earth, if we for example took all the Names&Ideas for alien creatures and monsters from every scifi series ever aired on public television without actually taking screenshots/copying from the books but instead make up something (accidentally) quite similar – vulcans with pointy noses instead of ears, or the klingons would love blasters instead of blades ... drifting off now. good night.

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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#10 Post by stpa »

labgnome wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 1:01 pm Well the idea for them comes form the clay hypothesis for the origin of life.
i had read of that in several works of fiction already, notably Kiln People is based on that

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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#11 Post by LienRag »

stpa wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:57 pm some examples: elves, dragons, dwarves, they all appear in the lord of rings so they must be copyrighted?
You're getting things backwards. It's not because something appears somewhere that it is copyrighted (though some corporate lawyers certainly try to intimidate their targets in believing that) but because something is an author's creation.

That's why elves, dragons, dwarves are not copyrighted (they stem from public domain folklore) but Hobbits are : there are elves, dwarves and dragons in D&D but there are no hobbits, only Halflings, for exactly this reason.

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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#12 Post by stpa »

LienRag wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:28 pm
stpa wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:57 pm some examples: elves, dragons, dwarves, they all appear in the lord of rings so they must be copyrighted?
...
That's why elves, dragons, dwarves are not copyrighted (they stem from public domain folklore) but Hobbits are : there are elves, dwarves and dragons in D&D but there are no hobbits, only Halflings, for exactly this reason.
interesting. i was not aware of that. see also https://middle-earth.xenite.org/why-are ... s-are-not/ yes and i imagine noone here can give qualified legal advice and only opinions - but more questions come to mind, like does a 70 year rule apply or something - jules verne ok to rip off? whose jurisdictions - the most restrictive ones i presume since there are certainly countries where fanfiction (which i would think we are in a way) counts as fair use - could there be optional downloadpackeges with content disclaimers for the more permissive jurisdictions .. what if we call them howbitzees instead of hobbitses and their feet are feathered and we put a disclaimer "all similarities to any existing or fictional entities is purely accidental or imaginary"

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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#13 Post by stpa »

ok clearly the name is copyrighted, of that originally creatied by tolkien species whose name is similar to howitzers (dont want to make my self a target by using the other word anymore) - but how far does that go. they were living underground and had furry feet - so the concepts of living underground and simultaniously having furry feet is under protection by threat of terrible lawsuit and can never (or 70 years) be used again? i still can't wrap my head around it and to be honest, am a little afraid now, that in that nymnmn-description i might have come up by accident with something that was already originally used somewhere else ..

and there are many websites like this one here https://en.everybodywiki.com/List_of_St ... E2%80%93B), and i'm sure some of those planet/star names from some fictional universe or other appear on our FO-map too ..

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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#14 Post by LienRag »

Ideas cannot be copyrighted, so Halflings are fine.
There's apparently a design decision made early in the FreeOrion project to not use already existing Species, even if they're in the public domain (as is Lovecraft's work), though.

There's also a "fair use" right, so you absolutely are allowed to talk about Hobbits and Vulcans and Klingons or whatever (but Klingon dictionaries and the like are another matter, it's outside the scope of Fair Use).

For the Planet names, that's more tricky, and I believe that FreeOrion's list of planets is mostly public domain names.
I don't think I ever saw Alderaan, for example.

Also, what you wrote for the Nymm was quite good, would you be interested in fleshing these yet-to-be-integrated Species a bit more ?
Especially the Muykuri-whatsitt maybe as there is AFAIK no clay-hypothesis based Species in FreeOrion ?

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Re: Master List of New Native Species

#15 Post by stpa »

LienRag wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:03 pm be interested in fleshing these yet-to-be-integrated Species a bit more
well yes indeed thank you for noticing ^^ i'm kind of trying to get a handle on what is permissible and what not – e.g. if they can have a series Orville that totally is a rip off from star trek, then … and i've read sci-fi far and wide, literally >thousands of books, about time i gave something back to the world(s) … but in a way that will not make problems for me later in life with some copyright lawyer or other if u c what i meen

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