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Tyreth
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#46 Post by Tyreth » Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:35 am

Oh, one other thing - races will share the same tech tree like MOO1-3, SMAC, and other games. If you want separate tree's for different races, then that will have to be the subject of a mod, it is beyond our plans for the official campaign and release. We may accept a few unique racial techs, but if we do they would be very few in number (maybe one or two per race). However, it is more likely we will not have any.

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Zanzibar
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#47 Post by Zanzibar » Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:03 pm

I would like the idea of 1 or 2 per race... would make things interesting ;)

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miu
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working on two races.

#48 Post by miu » Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:26 pm

Just thinking some more quite basic races in. Both need much work to complete but I think I'll post basics as they are now.

Gerria - nationalsitic lizard race with medieval like society with strong knighthood movement. Bonus to morale - minor plus in fighting, farming, mining and little less heavy weight of govermet. Basic race that likes to expand and does well on fighting as well and is deeply insulted when betrayed/won't forgive. They respect other race's right to live and have a own society (one race - one nation - one leader), but arent afraid to expand their own lebensraum when required :) Havent worked on downsides or history much yet. (ok, poor joke, but I cant wait to play with these and conquer colony named Polad on turn 39)

Klarr - peaceful insectoid farmer race. Huge grashopper like beings who live on forests planets, enjoy gardening them and have big farming and nature bonuses, though on other aspects quite basic race. Hate biological and nuclear weapons and are very aggravated towards races using them. Have a history with wars, that ended once they became too destructive towards nature and they decided that is better to stand united even with differences than destroy holy nature.

Hmm, other hand, for team responsible for race design, it might be already good time to go trough submitted races and list their specifics easily comparable, so that we can see what kind of races has already been submitted, and what kind of races we lack to make a nicely balanced race set for different playing strategies.

.Miu
Difference between a man and a gentleman is that a man does what he wants, a gentleman does what he should. - Albert Camus

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#49 Post by EntropyAvatar » Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:48 am

First off, I'd like to say that even though I've read a random fraction of the race proposals, I'm impressed by the creativity, imagination, effort and original thought that has gone into the race descriptions.

The second thing I'd like to say is that I'm rather worried that the final set of races will be even more unique and original.

At the QuartertoThreesite, you'll find an odd-ball review of the (now) old Reach for the Stars game. The relevant portion is:
Here is a quiz for you. Below is a paragraph from the Reach for the Stars manual.
The Arimechs are highly intelligent creatures possessing only crude tentacles with which to manipulate their environment. By trading ideas with other species they have acquired the necessary technology to conquer their surroundings and venture into space. Almost never seen outside a protective exoskeleton, the Arimechs can live almost anywhere, simply creating the appropriate travel suit for any environment. Everything about Arimechs is flexible: ship design, technology, and diplomacy. They are the greatest traders in the galaxy. They prefer peace but understand war and have no qualms about prosecuting it vigorously.
Without looking back at the text, what do the Arimechs use to grab onto things? I had to first read that paragraph and then type it in and then check to make sure I didn’t screw it up when I typed it, and I don’t remember, either. That’s ok, though, because it’s completely fucking irrelevant. Here is something that is not irrelevant: in Master of Orion, the Klackons are big ants. Why? Because ants are good workers, and Klackons get production bonuses. Notice how I remember that, yet I didn’t just type in a big paragraph about it.

I saw Wall Street way back when it was in theaters, so I’ve had over a decade to assimilate the now well-known axiom that greed is good. Therefore, when somebody presents me with a well-dressed man by the name of “Morgan” and informs me that he’s very rich, I can pretty much write my own backstory right there. This backstory then serves as a mnemonic device to make sense out of all the subsequent arbitrary game devices that Reach for the Stars has somehow transformed into Arimech tentacles. I know a planned economy is bad because it’s not much of a leap from Hitler or Milosevic to rounding people up and dumping them in mass graves, so when I need to choose an economy for J.P. Morgan’s team, I know right away that “planned” probably wouldn’t work. For role-playing reasons. And guess what? It’s prohibited by the game rules! I could probably sit down right now with only the Critique of Pure Reason and the dungeon master’s guide from some space role-playing game and figure out the rest of the game’s rules just from the leader portraits. By way of contrast, just now I read the planet suitability characteristics for one of the space races in Reach for the Stars, and not only can I not remember what they were, but I’ve already forgotten what the name of the race was.
For those of you that have read this far, what I'd like to say is that the races should resonate with the player. A five-word description that connects with the players experience is much richer in the imagination than a completely original alien with five paragraphs of evolutionary history.

This is not to say we need to have cat people, bear people and eagle people, but maybe we can try a bit harder to be original and somehow familiar at the same time? I think we should have some races that are really weird, but we also need some that aren't. Plus it's a big dissappointment to have a radically alien species description boil down to +20 spying, -10 mining.

My apologies if my cursory examination has led me to the wrong conclusion.

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Krikkitone
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#50 Post by Krikkitone » Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:59 am

You are definitely right there. Most of my races are admittedly just fun putting things together to fill them in. And various combinations (of pick sets at least) Should be applied.

However, the art work and name of any race should be tweaked, (or redone altogether) to make sure that it gives the impression of the race picks of that race.

(so for a Diplomatic/military race, they need to Look like generals and admirals, a military/production race needs to Look like grunts,

glasses/ big involved eyes are good for research races
inflexible skeletons for uncreative, unification types
soft looking bodies for unmilitary/ low productive types

etc.)

That is where the artists are needed they can best figure out the 'general impression' that a races picture gives and take the Physical description given by the race's creator and see how much it needs to be tweaked/scapped to make it intuitive.

I admit I posted a lot of wierd races lately, partly because I, like many race posters, like the wierd/convention breaker race. Also because I figure that

1. Some Pick Combos need to be seen that are somewhat counter intuitive or rare, ie Diplomat+Combat; Research+Combat

2. The artists here can probably take our physical description skeletons and mold them to reflect the picks/feel of the race.

But you're right, the race descriptions we have as developed as they are, are really just beginnings, for the artist to actually make them usable.

Moriarty
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#51 Post by Moriarty » Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:44 am

A valid point indeed Entropy.
I'd say that the races (as listed in this post) would constitute the 'detailed' description. Like in MOO3 for example, when u actually select your race, you only get the relevent info (i.e. what they're good at).

And of course ensure that all the artwork resumbles what our human pre-conceptions allow (i.e. big headed = researchers, machine = good manufacturers etc).

snakechia
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#52 Post by snakechia » Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:56 pm

My first ever attempt at a race. I'm not very creative, so don't make too much fun, but what do you think? Feel free to add or subtract....

Yundi

Intro:

-Peaceful bird-like race

Homeworld:

-Rutai – planet much like earth

Physical Description:

-Mostly featherless – Males have red feathers on head which stand straight up when expressing extreme emotions or mating
-Long slender featherless arms
-Long thin beak
-6ft -8ft tall
-Powerful legs with 4 fingered claws

Social Structure:

-Family’s consist of mated-for-life male and female, and young
-Live in towns and cities very similar to earth, but buildings tend to be taller and more open.
-Elected socialist government
-Ability to have 1 young every earth year, but usually only produce 1-3 in a lifetime.

History:

The Yundi began as a flying species feeding on fish from the abundant oceans. They resided in the tree tops and cliffs rarely, if ever, contacting the surface of the planet. Over time the Yundi found that it was easier to find food on the surface of the planet. There was also more of a variety of tastes on the surface. Eventually the Yundi spent almost all their time on the surface, returning to the canopy only for sleep. Through the years the Yundi lost the ability to fly completely. Most of the feathers on their body’s disappeared, except for a small patch of red feathers covering the males’ heads.

Abilities:

The Yundi are very adept pilots, because their long arms can reach a further circumference of controls. Their keen eyesight also aids in flight. They have an average level of research based on the rest of the races. They tend to focus on peaceful technology and not weapons because there is very little conflict in their society. They are fast on the ground as they move about like apes. They have very powerful legs, which they use in combat as they stand on their arms to attack. Their use of weapons is not very good because they have such long slender arms. Their reproduction rate and lifespan is comparable to humans. Their manufacturing is above average because their arms are long and they can reach more from a stationary position. Their friendly demeanor and society tend to fair better in foreign relations and they tend to be very open to treaties and trade, however, they do think twice if weapons are involved.

Voice In the Wilderness
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The Tar'Shakurian

#53 Post by Voice In the Wilderness » Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:37 pm

This is my first attempt at writing a race, but I stand by my choice; hope new ones are still beings accepted:


The Tar'Shakurians

("Tar" as in the sticky stuff, "Sha" as in Shah, former Iran rulers, "Kur" as in a medical Cure, 'ians'..generic; together, Tar''Shah-Cure-ians" but you say "Shah-Cure" so fast it sounds like "Shaq-URIAN" etc.)



Introduction - A ruthless, exacting, methodical, cruel, violent, patient and calculating race from the Fringe (Periphery) world of Ti Tenga. Original name lost to history.
Proto-species separted into two parts; a large enslaved laborer caste and a decadent aristocratic ruling class entirely composed of a telepathic minority. The Psychics ruled the planet under a Matriarchy (Amazon-like) with a high female ratio. The psychic ruling aristocracy kept an iron boot on the throat of the working caste using their psychic talents, which were twofold: they were telepathic and they were prescient, they could predict the future. Thus, any organized uprising against the psychics would be predicted before hand and crushed accordingly, and even random, more difficult to predict (but still very predicable) sentiments of resistance could be detected telepathicly (Big Brother is watching) and disposed of.
The Psyhic ruling class was decadent and created a stagnant society with no advancement whatsoever (extremely feudal) in which all resources were devoted to their callous whims and pursuits of pleasure rather than advancement...they never achieved Faster Than Light drive and didn't spread beyond their homeworld. Entire DEMOGRAPHICS were often exectuted on a WHIM by the psychics, just to enjoy the rattling of their bones as they waded through them. Tens of Thousands died in bloodsports forcibly staged for the amusement of the aristocracy. Popular games among the children of the psychics included Live UnSedated Vivisection of laborers. The workers, who actually made up four fifths of the planetary population, were ALL slaves, and in fact were less than animals to the psychics. And they had to try constantly to NEVER even think a resentful thought, because the psychics could always detect their thoughts and when it came to the worker caste, the psychics thought of themselves as gods, and their policy towards the opinions of workers was zero-tolerance: swift (if you were lucky) and deadly reprisal.
Because of their master's telepathy and psychic ability to predict the future, no revolt was ever staged that posed a significant threat to the psychics, and their rule over the planet lasted for thousands of years uninterupted, and likewise, their imposed stagnation upon society (because they cared about nothing but their own materialistic wants) forced their civilization into an unending state of paralysis. They had a high level of technology, with computers, DNA manipulation, and industrialization, and had massive modern cities with mass transportation and skyscrapers, but it extended no further than it would serve them [think Brave New World; technically advanced society that no longer advanced, was decadent and entirely materialistic].

Against these conditions, it would seem the cruel and stagnant rule of the psychics would continue forever. But fate would not have it so. For while the psychis could predict revolt, they could not predict Innovation: if asked when an invention, such as FTL or Transmutation of Elements, was going to be invented, they would have not idea; they could not predict creation and invention. Working in secret, a lone technician named Shakur labored on a means to defeat the psychic overlords. He was of the technician sub-caste, there being no actual scientist-researchers. His tasks were many, and as an everyman of sorts he was shunted between the various high-tech labs that performed services for the Psychics: DNA screening and manipulation labs to ensure the development of more pure Psychic children; Genetic engineering labs to produce more efficient workers to serve; Cellular study labs to erradicate any diseases that might affect the Psychics, and Nano-machine assembler plants for the development of Nano-machine 'goo' that upon contact with raw materials could synthesize fully functional machinery [MOO2 had this tech]; and Physics labs that created null-environment singularities, in which unrecyclable waste was disposed of, completely destroying it with respect to this dimension, keeping the planet clean and 'perfect' for the psychics.
Shakur set about to invent the means for the worker caste to overthrow their cruel Psychic masters. His labor was long, but after long years of secret work he was finally able to finish his creation. Human language would have no proper name for what he had created, but it would change the fate of the laborer caste forever:

His invention combined efforts in the fields of Physics, Genetic Engineering, and Nano-machine assemblers. Conceivably, Nano-machines can be created that arrange themselves into the shapes of organic cell structures, and thousands working together can create what appear to be artificial cells, made of nano-machines. Contrastingly, Genetic Engineering can conceivably reach the point where DNA can code for an organic cell to synthesize Steel from basic components, and to organically create non-organic structures within the body. Both of these technologies approach the point where what you have is essentially a cell-like structure that can create non-organic structures and fuze them with the tissue of an organism (it can approach from either field). None know exactly what he did, but Incanus was able to make a virus-like infection, and none can tell if it was made by using advanced Genetic Manipulation or Nano-machine restructuring of organic tissue, but it may ahve been (and probably was) both. The result was that if the infection was spread to a worker, theoretically they would have vast new strenght and control over their bodies, with Cybernetic implants that were physically GROWN by their own body tissue from base elements
[Note: Colossus in X2 could make 'organicly synthesized steel', these things could direct even more complex structures, to the point that body armor, talons and metal Spines, projectile flechettes, artificial internal glands, internal repair systems, artificial muscles, and hightened intelligence, etc., but be synthesized by the tissue of the body. Point is, the cells of the individual specimen have bonded with the infection so much that you can't tell if they have artificial cells made of Nano-machines arranged in a cell-shape, or if they have been Genetically Engineered to the point that their own DNA and ribosomes can create and direct the formation of inorganic body structures]
based on his experience in creating the disposal fields that removed waste material from our dimension, Shakur added something else, far more important: the vector of infection (whether Nano-machine or virus or both was never known) also allowed the cell-structures of the new body tissue to surround the individual specimen in an a field that slightly offset them from the energies of this dimension: Essentially, they could no longer be detected by the Psychics; their thoughts could not be read, and more importantly they were invisible to any psychic trying to detect their future actions.



What followed was one of the most violent revolutions in the history of creation. Both sides employed scorched-earth tactics when they had to retreat, and it was held that there were "no innocent" anymore. The Psychics carpet-bombed civillian population centers that fell from their control to these powerful new warriors. Entire families of Psychics were executed by dragging them into the street and mutilating them. Workers became fanatics, children slit children's throats, and entire legions of captured Psychics were torn to peices at Shakur's command. The pent-up rage of thousands of years of slavery, agony, and torment was unleashed. The cities became raging warzones, terrible weapons were used, a nuclear winter set in, and the Revolution raged on.

The Revolution proceeded to engulf the planet, destroying everything in its path. Finally, the Psychics retreated to their final redoubt. Shakur lead his army in a last great siege, but on the verge of defeat the Psychics poisoned the wells. A missile salvo was fired from the base into the atmosphere where they exploded and spread their contents across the planet. Not knowing what had happened, Shakur and his army triumphantly executed the last Psychics down to the last child, until they were extinct.
But soon after they had claimed their planet, the last great evil of the Psychics was revealed. What the Psychics had spread into the atmosphere was short-lived virus that could be coded to kill all members a gender of a population. If they Psychics had killed most of the males, the remaining few males could repopulate with the remaining females within a generation. But if most females were terminated, only so many offspring could be produced, and the population of the race would be decreased dramatically. So instead, the Psychics targeted the virus against female Tar'Shakurians. Well over 99% of the female Tar'Shakurians were killed, and although a treatment was finally found that permanently neutralized the virus weapon, it was too little, too late. With so few females left, they could not possibly breed fast enough to repopulate. Left with a male to female ratio of nearly 10,000 to 1, Tar'Shakurian society was devastated. Thus, a regimented breeding program was set in place. Because breeding future offspring was so limited, only males that had proven their worthiness through exploits could pass on their genes. Even so, the growth rate of their population was incredibly reduced.
The results of the Revolution were incredible: the entire Psychic caste, had been erradicated to the last individual, 100% dead, and the worker caste no longer existed as the species it once had. Of the Tar'Shakurians, nearly 90% were dead, and among the survivors, only one in 10,000 were female.
Their homeworld Ti Tenga itself was devasted by the Revolution. But now that they were free if the opression of the Psychic's tyranny, the ambition of the Tar'Shakurians drove them to the stars.

Because they were long enslaved by Psychics, the Tar'Shakurians live to destroy any psychics they come across. The Tar'Shakurians believe that what happened on Ti Tenga was a lesson to the Galaxy; that psychics can unify and create such strong empires that civillizations will stagnate under the yoke of their rule. For that matter, they believe that any Empire that unifies all of known territory is by its very nature evil, because it will lead to stagnation and ultimate death of all societies involved. Thus, major goals of the Tar'Shakurians are to prevent any one race from becoming so poweful it can rule over all others. Even if a Federation of many races peacefully unifies under one leader, such as the President of the Orion Sentate, they will fight to the death to destory such a large empire. They will not attack a race weaker than themselves, and they believe it is wrong to drive another race to complete extinction, however, they will fight to keep other races in a balance of power. This makes them odd, because they will help weak races or races under attack, but will constantly strive to break up alliances between two races, and to prevent any one race from becoming powerful enough to be elected President of the Senate: However, they will REFUSE the position of President of the Senate if it is offered to them, and then proceed to fight the next race in line to ascension.
However, all rules are off when they meet a PSYCHIC race. A PSYCHIC race will send the Tar'Shakurians into a kill-frenzy. They WILL actively try to drive a Psychic race to extinction by any means necissary, even if it means they have to resort to Nuclear/Chemical/Biological weapons, PlanetKiller, or bombing defenseless civillian colonies of Psychic. They view Psychic races as complete anantema, a sickness to be cut out, and that Psychics are an extreme and frightening danger to the galaxy that must be destroyed at all costs.
Also, the Tar'Shakurians freed themselves from a society in which technological innovation was shunned, by using their greater know-how of advanced technology. Thus, the Tar'Shakurians are technological pack-rats. Paranoid in the extreme on the matters, they are determined to ALWAYS maintaine a technological advantage over others. They are completely devoted to research and their founding concept is "peace through superior firepower", and what they can't research themselves, they will readily steal.

***Their advanced stealth-tech in their implants prevents Omniscient races from detecting them, nullifying any of the affects of this ability***


***The Revolution occured only a generation ago, and although Shakur is now dead, many of the Old Guard of their political structure actually fought in the conflict as young soldiers and remember what their world was like before it***




Homeworld - Ti Tenga (pronounced "Tie" as in "I wore a Tie with that suit" and "Teng-ga" better phrasing would have been "Tie Tenga",
but "Ti Tenga" is how it is spelled).
Ti Tenga---Blasted by the Revolution which erradicated the former Psychic enslavers. Geographically sized basins and hardpans of glass stretch for miles where cities used to be. A world a ash, rock, dust, and cavernous ruined cities. A long Nuclear Winter never really ended, and it was only the best efforts of the Tar'Shakurians that were able to keep it from becomeing officially a "Toxic" world...nonetheless, the homeworld
Ti Tenga is a "Radiated" planet, and quite inhospitable. Most live in bunkers underground. Also, most native life is dead, save for small scavengers and hardy insect, etc. The result of so many explosions sent so much particulate dust etc. into the atmosphere that the nuclear winter/dust cloud never went away (like the one that formed when the dinosaurs were killed: meteor kicked up enough dust to block out the sunm same here, and that's NOT mentioning the effects of radiation fallout).

As a result of the extremely low number of female Tar'Shakurians left alive after the Revolution, female Tar'Shakurians are only to be found only the heavily guarded homeworld. Colonies are formed, but they consist entirely of male workers, researchers, and farmers. Once a child, if male, has been born on the homeworld, it is then sent to be raised in creches on its father's colony world (doesn't affect game mechanics, just for purposes of story, all breeding and birthing happens exclusively on the homeworld Ti Tenga, with children then shipped back to a colony to keep the colony productive and the homeworld from overpopulating, just a little tidbit)


"A reason for leaving the home planet - An important one this. If there is no reason to leave, they wouldn't leave, and thus wouldn't be involved in the game. Excuses generally range from "xenophobic nut-cases", through to "ardent explorers". "

Well, essentially, freed from thousands of years of stagnation, and just fighting a bloody Revolution, the Tar'Shakurians were filled with unbridled ambition. They were forbidenn to reach for the stars before, but now, they felt it was owed them. Ruthless and cunning, the Tar'Shakurians are control-freaks. Former slaves who were controled, they opperate under the philosophy of "what you control cannot hurt you". Thus they hoard powerful technology and try to found a powerful empire in space, to make sure they are never conquered, again.
That, and their homeworld was so devastated by the Revolution, that it was a case of "Expand or Die" were their homeworld could no longer support them without colonies.

*****Physical description - Bipedal humanoid. After transformation with techno-organic Vector descriptions only ones available: Original appearance similar to that of baseline humans. After transformation, they stand 7 feet tall and are covered in Reactive Body Armor that nullifies kinetic attacks, only directed energy weapons cause them harm....the armor is GROWN by their own body. Amazing powers of regeneration. Covered in metallic spines and tentacles extruding from their back, synthesized by the very tissue of their body. They can "feel" these as if they were their own extremities. Large amounts of fine spines splaying away from the face and head lead to two metalic "horns" that curve back toward the head (like the Balrog's horns) and series of spines running down back of head onto back that look like a plume of sort. Talons on fingers. From the tips of their segmented tentacle-spines, can flick sharp metal flechettes at a target (this is a lot easier to visualize that to describe, and I'll work on this more, but to set things straight this thing used to look human, but now the only vaguely human part is the (lower) face and the fact that it's bipedal).


Social Structure - An ad hoc system, could be called an oligarchy. Not an empire with an Emperor, because they feel that centralizing power like that is dangerous because the peace it brings will lead to stagnation. They crave individual freedom and value it over the body politik at the expense of their very lives, but willingly give up power to their own government (ex. in times of war...always) when they believe that through this sacrifice greater personal freedom for all can be attained.
Essentially, the basic principle of the Tar'Shakurians is that they defeated the Psychics with superior technology, and thus they believe in "peace through superior firepower"....climbing the tech tree higher than anyone else and using superior weaponry to beat the others into submission (unlike the peaceful and altruistic Psilon). Because of this, the loose oligarchy ruling the Tar'Shakurians can be considered a Technocracy because it is rule by those with the most scientific knowledge.....that they can contribute to the war effort.
After the death of Shakur, they have adopted this system. Officially they are the "Tar'Shakurian Technocracy" and are ruled by a Director.

For info on breeding pattern, see notes under Homeworld description.

History - I sort of just combined my Intro with my History, sorry, I'll refine that later.

Race Attributes - Fantastic researchers and spys. Growth rate is TERRIBLE, because their female population is almost marginal. They have a bizarre philosophy of fighting other races to the point that a balance of power is achieved, but they think it's wrong for one empire to get to big. Thus, they've got good shipboardweapons, but they get a MAJOR ground combat penalty. They're actually great ground fighters, but their soldiers will be anxious to actually conquer another planet. They don't need combat bonuses, but would get a Warlord bonus for Ultra-elite crews and larger fleet size.
Could possibly throw in TOLERANT into here. But they have to be WARLORDS with bad ground combat, BAD growth rate, CREATIVE and RESEARCH bonus, as well as a SPYING bonus: they hoard technology.
Alot more work needed on this one.


Basically, I think these guys are great because they (will be) balanced to be such a weird enemy: A race that refuse to drive other races to extinction (provided they are non-Psychic), yet that will fight and beat up any race that threatens to become powerful enough to become President of the Orion Senate; they want to maintain a balance of power. Also, they will never try to be President themselves, and if they win anyway, even if they abstain, they will refuse the decision and fight a Final War against everyone else.
Sort of a creative block to your race: They won't kill you, but they won't let you win the game through Conquest or being elected President of the Senate either (they ALWAYS fight a Final War and never go quitely).


Thoughts?

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Impaler
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#54 Post by Impaler » Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:49 am

The history and Back story are interesting but a bit long winded, also you constantly "slip" out of the story and go off on tangents that over explain sertain things and almost sound like arguments for the validity of the plot. These take up whole Paragraphs and realy subtract from the readability of the story.

Also the explination of the discovery that changes their society is a bit too weird in my opinion with organicaly grown steel and transforming into a new species. First off the telepathic elites if they have the ability to read thoughts and kill with their minds should be patheticaly frail and ill protected physicaly as physical protection is un-nessary. The lower classes need not become hidious bio-armor encrusted monster to defeat them. Not to mention this incredible lead seems a bit far fetched for a stagnated society (also the elites should be able to predict it) Once they are free of telepathic domination a few sticks and stones should be sufficinet to kill the elitists.

I sugjest you just simplify that part and say that a genetic mutation occures that renders one "invisible" to telepathy (it seems that you have already established the telepathy as being a genetic mutation so this seems more reasonable). The elites can neither sense their thoughts or predict their actions. Over the corse of generations this mutation spreads and eventualy thouse individuals that have it become aware of its power and start an uprissing.

Also the death of a huge part of the female population is not a sufficient reason for long term low population growth. The next generation would rebound from such a catastrophy and grow at a normal rate, albe it that generation would be tiny compared to the previous one. I recomend that you provide an alternate reason for their low growth, consider that the cause need not be physical (which is the common explination), it may be cultural.

Also the Physical decription you provide is a bit bland and human like. We dont have any policy that puts a prefference on bizzar or non-humanoid biologies, but everyone here should know that I personaly have a strong preference in that direction so I would encourage you to go in that direction. Start off by coming up with a description of the Environment that they live in and then create the "lower life forms" of that environment and lastly put your guys in their and make them harmonius with eveything else already in their environment.

Overall I think the best part is the Focus on Balance of power that you describe at the end. Though we cant be shure of how the various victory conditions will be meet and of the mechanics involved (because they havent been done yet). A general focus on maintaining a Balance of Power is logical for this race and adds an intersting and unique element to the games politics and diplomacy.
Fear is the Mind Killer - Frank Herbert -Dune

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Ablaze
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#55 Post by Ablaze » Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:34 am

I think it would be more interesting if this race's home world was actually destroyed at the end of the war. It would be an interesting handicap which would balance out quite a few bonuses if they started out with nothing but a small fleet and 2 or 3 colony ships orbiting an asteroid field.
Time flies like the wind, fruit flies like bananas.

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skdiw
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#56 Post by skdiw » Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:18 am

That sounds better and more unique.
:mrgreen:

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Impaler
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#57 Post by Impaler » Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:27 am

Agreed. Also an idea to explain the low population growth. Perhaps any individual that shows telepathic abilites is imediatly killed. Thats consistent with their anti telepathic stance. If a lot of individuals are "latentet" telopaths then their will be a lot of exicutions.
Fear is the Mind Killer - Frank Herbert -Dune

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Krikkitone
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#58 Post by Krikkitone » Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:44 am

Actually, I'd say making telepathic resistance a mutation undermines one of the key concepts of of their race and that is their extreme reliance on technology/knowledge...

It could be some type of purely artificially induced genetic manipulation, but including some type of complicated technology is reinforces it more. (also just because their society is stagnant doesn't mean its not advanced.) Its quite possible that the telepathic overlords simply gave up on exploration because its not worth it / we're so much better than anything out there rather than a lack of capacity. [happened on Earth in both advanced and primitive societies]

Finally, the low female population could be a permanent effect of biological weapons used in the war (say only one of every 30 children is female)...there is no way for them to correct this because their technological base collapsed in the war (meaning they are stuck with the low birth rate... although they do what they can to improve it). That means that their nano tech modification is only with them because it is self replicating.

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#59 Post by Voice In the Wilderness » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:45 am

First off the telepathic elites if they have the ability to read thoughts and kill with their minds should be patheticaly frail and ill protected physicaly as physical protection is un-nessary. The lower classes need not become hidious bio-armor encrusted monster to defeat them. Not to mention this incredible lead seems a bit far fetched for a stagnated society (also the elites should be able to predict it) Once they are free of telepathic domination a few sticks and stones should be sufficinet to kill the elitists.


For purposes of story, they could also be telekinetic. Mostly, they had Battle Precognition (see two moves ahead of the enemy in any fight), which have then quite and edge, that and they had the entrenched power base.

Basically, I planned this as an Elerian offshott revolting againt the Psychic Matriarchy of the Elerians, but when I realized the Elerians might not be incorporated into this, I started from scratch (should the Elerians be encounted, their anti-Psychic doctrine will make them rip through the Elerians. Again, this was based on a revolt again an ELERIAN OFFSHOOT, and the Elerians are anachronistically (intentinally so) good fighters.
Add push, the Psychics could have had rough-equivalent of Samurai code fighters, knights working for feudal lords. The idea is, the Tar'Shakurian don't care about honor and stuff, they'd open up on one of these guys with automatic weapons and germ warfare...they want to get the job done. As survivors of an apocalyptic war, they believe "WE survive".
I sugjest you just simplify that part and say that a genetic mutation occures that renders one "invisible" to telepathy (it seems that you have already established the telepathy as being a genetic mutation so this seems more reasonable). The elites can neither sense their thoughts or predict their actions. Over the corse of generations this mutation spreads and eventualy thouse individuals that have it become aware of its power and start an uprissing.
That could work, kepp that in mind, but I like nano-tech implants better.

**Again, I explained this: Even if you can predict future events, you can't predict INOVATION....Inventions, such as "Who will develop Unified Theory and When?" or "Who will develop FTL and When?' are UNPREDICTABLE! Mind you, someone COULD predict "A Unifed Theory will never be developed" or "A Unified Field Theory WILL be developed, at SOMETIME I cannot predict, by SOMEONE I cannot predict"....for all they know it would happen 5 hours after the Heat-death of the Universe.



Also the death of a huge part of the female population is not a sufficient reason for long term low population growth. The next generation would rebound from such a catastrophy and grow at a normal rate, albe it that generation would be tiny compared to the previous one. I recomend that you provide an alternate reason for their low growth, consider that the cause need not be physical (which is the common explination), it may be cultural.

Good Point. I did post an explanation but in retrospect, it ain't that great: the idea was that the race is encountered within ONE GENERATION of the population implosion. They would start off slow, with a fraction of a point, but YEAH, growth rate would exponentially improve as the race advanced. Also, I didn't bear in mind that MOO takes place over centuries if not thousands of turns (if you play it RIGHT), so there needs to be a more long-lasting explanation.

Nano-tech upgrade wrought havoc with their reproductive systems?

Females were genetically damaged (all XX pairings of C's) so that they die in childbirth every time, so that only if there are twins will the population increase?


Also the Physical decription you provide is a bit bland and human like. We dont have any policy that puts a prefference on bizzar or non-humanoid biologies, but everyone here should know that I personaly have a strong preference in that direction so I would encourage you to go in that direction. Start off by coming up with a description of the Environment that they live in and then create the "lower life forms" of that environment and lastly put your guys in their and make them harmonius with eveything else already in their environment.

Another concept is that that DON'T live in harmony with environments (our planet's wreckeda already, why worry about pollution?)

As for odd, I did forget one large bit......I keep thinking of them as having fairly well advanced shape-changing abilities. NOT "shapeshifting"....not Star Trek "quitely turn into goo and reform like Play-doh". More like "John Carpenter's the Thing"...to outrun it's enemy, it would Break and reset it's spine to walk on all four and move faster, in one swift motion. But more Cybernetic than that. Creating extra sensory organs as the occasion presents itself, etc.


Overall I think the best part is the Focus on Balance of power that you describe at the end. Though we cant be shure of how the various victory conditions will be meet and of the mechanics involved (because they havent been done yet). A general focus on maintaining a Balance of Power is logical for this race and adds an intersting and unique element to the games politics and diplomacy.
Thanks, but I dont' know if the engine would handle it.


Basically, they get GREAT Tech, either through Research of Spying, and Warlord, so they have Ultra-elite crews and defensive marines, and field LARGE fleets of powerful ships. HOWEVER, their ground combat is near non-existant. Also, they SHOULD NOT get any combat upgrades (Like the Elerians or Mrrshans), they've got their Tech advance to handle that (although they don't get a penalty either).
The idea is, it's VERY difficult for them to actually invade other planets (the storyline reason is; it's not that they can't---they can DEFEND their planets well, bit due to a bizarre ethics code refuse to Conquer a galaxy spanning empire.) Also, because their homeworld was ruined, they have NO Industrial base. ***The only way they could invade a planet is the bomb it to the point that it only has 1 million or so colonists left, but by that point so many improvements have been destroyed, they'd have to rebuild them from the ground up.....and building INFRASTRUCTURE from the ground up is one of their weak points, so it would take so long they might as well build a new colony---none of the advantages of "capturing the Factory Planet because we don't have factories".....


Alterante plan: I don't know if the game engine would allow this, but they CANNOT build their own Troop Transport ships, and CANNOT gain new planets by invasion. Thus, they can only colonize their own, a VERY slow process for them, because they have population growth and Industry penalties.
Essentially, although they are LATE GAME players if they are to win (which they don't TRY to). The idea is, they have a small but advanced fleet that because of it's advances is so far above everyone else it pounds them into submission, but can't defeat them. Only in the LATE game can their slow moving economy build the VAST Warlord-sized fleet. HOwever, they CAN build a fleet the SAME size as a regular race's fleet: my point is that they can't take advantage of the Warlord fleet-size bonus until late in the game when there Industry can handle such vast fleets; until then, they have to have a regular size but advanced fleet.

******A savvy player would use his small but FAR more advanced fleet (roughly speaking, they'd have Proton Torpedos when everyone else had Nuclear Missles) and his this powerful fleet to EXTORT money out of other races. Using diplomacy, they can demand VAST amounds of money, tributes and gifts, and then use it to "RUSH BUY" at the queue a larger fleet than there small industry could support at that time.

Still, always like special diplomacy.
Agreed. Also an idea to explain the low population growth. Perhaps any individual that shows telepathic abilites is imediatly killed. Thats consistent with their anti telepathic stance. If a lot of individuals are "latentet" telopaths then their will be a lot of executions.
That would also be a good reason for their poor population growth: they couldn't erradicate the recessive Psychic gene from individuals, so they just terminate Psychic youth immediately.
I think it would be more interesting if this race's home world was actually destroyed at the end of the war. It would be an interesting handicap which would balance out quite a few bonuses if they started out with nothing but a small fleet and 2 or 3 colony ships orbiting an asteroid field.
Interstellar wanderers could be an entirely different race: it sounds to much like either A) Battlestar Galactica or B) the Yuuzhan Vong. They need to have a wrecked homeworld.
Think about it, giving them ships that early on wold let them pick a planet of their own choosing, maybe a good one.
Maybe not a planet, I mean I don't know if asteroid bases are possible (was it a bug, or why could I build Outposts on asteroids and gas giants in MOO2?). In either case the asteriods would be the remains of their homeworld. But my biggest concern is that they MUST have a homeworld. Maybe it could be an ingame trigger that their home star ALWAYS goes nova in the first few turns, as a result of the the Revlotion, etc.
Actually, I'd say making telepathic resistance a mutation undermines one of the key concepts of of their race and that is their extreme reliance on technology/knowledge...

It could be some type of purely artificially induced genetic manipulation, but including some type of complicated technology is reinforces it more. (also just because their society is stagnant doesn't mean its not advanced.) Its quite possible that the telepathic overlords simply gave up on exploration because its not worth it / we're so much better than anything out there rather than a lack of capacity. [happened on Earth in both advanced and primitive societies]
Actually, that's a point I really came back to: their are a research heavy race, so they should have genetic manipulation fairly mastered by now. They should have just weeded it out.
(also just because their society is stagnant doesn't mean its not advanced.) Its quite possible that the telepathic overlords simply gave up on exploration because its not worth it / we're so much better than anything out there rather than a lack of capacity. [happened on Earth in both advanced and primitive societies]
Actually, that's exactly what happened with the telepathic overlords. Bear in mind, though, that the Tar'shakurian society is NOT stagnant, that's one of the things they fought against the psychics for.
Finally, the low female population could be a permanent effect of biological weapons used in the war (say only one of every 30 children is female)...there is no way for them to correct this because their technological base collapsed in the war (meaning they are stuck with the low birth rate... although they do what they can to improve it). That means that their nano tech modification is only with them because it is self replicating.

Important note: Their TECHNOLOGICAL base never collapsed: that's one of the big things they have, technology. The war did ruing their INDUSTRIAL base.

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#60 Post by Krikkitone » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:19 pm

Important note: Their TECHNOLOGICAL base never collapsed: that's one of the big things they have, technology. The war did ruing their INDUSTRIAL base.
Well unless you want them to start off WAAAY ahead technologically of other races in the game, a technological collapse is required.

They would still highly value technology giving them a bonus in aquiring it (research and spying bonuses) but this way they could start at about the same level everyone else does.

After all, if their society had stagnated, then they had very few scientists, and with very few people understanding how things Really worked (as opposed to which parts to replace), destruction of libraries, a significant portion of the population and the actual infrastructure itself could leave society without the capacity to recover except by the normal slow method
(which they really want to speed up, seeing technology as the solution to all their problems)

Basically if they are going to be super advanced, isolationist stagnation is required to stop them from unbalancing... On the other hand if they are going to be highly dynamic, they should start offat the same level or lower than anyone else.

(Now they could start of highly advanced technologically but with say 1% of the normal starting population on an uninhabitable world, that would be balanced ... assuming there aren't any cloning center techs that give an automatic bonus to technology.)

Its probably far easier to say their technology collapsed back to some low level and by the time of game start they have recovered to early FTL level like everyone else. and they Really want to achieve and surpass their former levels.

(also a high level of unrest/revolt might be another good balancing factor for them... highly resentful of authority and power.. it might help assure they don't go conquering the galaxy because they could never hold onto a world without slaughtering the natives first.. and even the colonists'll probably declare independence after a few centuries.)

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