the effects of defeat

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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skdiw
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#16 Post by skdiw » Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:54 am

I don't like morales because it's usually have an small effect so it's yet another variable that player will be confused. It's all these small little variables that ppl have no clue what's happening in moo3. Any variable we add to the game should have a clear influence or big impact so players know cause & effect of their choices or actions.
:mrgreen:

Ranos
Dyson Forest
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#17 Post by Ranos » Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:34 am

@ Bastian

I like the logarithmic idea. That would definately help solve some peoples concerns.

@skdiw

The reason people don't have a clue as to what's happening in MOO3 is because of a lack of feedback and information. If there had been a manual that came with the game and/or a good in game encyclopedia that explained what things can happen where. The area that has the most problems, IMO, is diplomacy. There are dozens of variables that effect your relation with each race. That makes the game fun. You never know what exactly is going to happen and attitudes can change in a single turn. The problem is that you never know why the Raas just threatened you. All they do is threaten. Not "you have too many ships near our border" or "we just caught your spy attempting to steal Phasors."

If there is feedback and information, people won't be confused.
200 and still a Wyrm!?! I don't want to be a Wyrm anymore. I've been a Wyrm for 100 posts now.

Moriarty
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#18 Post by Moriarty » Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:32 am

the original suggestion was that only major victories losses would affect the morale, thereby generally doing away with feedback effects because you can't loose 90% of your fleet in a pitched battle that regularly (yes i know you could loose 90% of the remaining 10%, but that's easily coded against).

iamrobk
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#19 Post by iamrobk » Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:35 am

Moriarty wrote:the original suggestion was that only major victories losses would affect the morale, thereby generally doing away with feedback effects because you can't loose 90% of your fleet in a pitched battle that regularly (yes i know you could loose 90% of the remaining 10%, but that's easily coded against).
Well, what do we define as a major victory? What one player says is a near loss may be seen by another as a close engagement, and whatever. It can just get too complicated.

Moriarty
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#20 Post by Moriarty » Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:58 am

Well, what do we define as a major victory? What one player says is a near loss may be seen by another as a close engagement, and whatever. It can just get too complicated.
I think i stated an answer to that in my initial post.

Basically if you loose a good chunk of your fleet to an enemy fleet, that's a major defeat (makes sense). Similarly, you take out a large chunk of the enemy fleet in a single encounter, that's a major victory.


As was demonstrated in one of the other posts, people don't generally care about small skirmishes (*comlete lack of enthusiasm in voice*: "oh look, our two battleships took out their scouts. yipee").
However you hear about a major issue, it's news ("did you hear, our entire 1st, 2nd and 9th fleets were destroyed by the evil snufflblutts. how are we going to defend ourselves now?")

That sort of thing.

iamrobk
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#21 Post by iamrobk » Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:39 pm

Moriarty wrote:
Well, what do we define as a major victory? What one player says is a near loss may be seen by another as a close engagement, and whatever. It can just get too complicated.
I think i stated an answer to that in my initial post.

Basically if you loose a good chunk of your fleet to an enemy fleet, that's a major defeat (makes sense). Similarly, you take out a large chunk of the enemy fleet in a single encounter, that's a major victory.


As was demonstrated in one of the other posts, people don't generally care about small skirmishes (*comlete lack of enthusiasm in voice*: "oh look, our two battleships took out their scouts. yipee").
However you hear about a major issue, it's news ("did you hear, our entire 1st, 2nd and 9th fleets were destroyed by the evil snufflblutts. how are we going to defend ourselves now?")

That sort of thing.
But what exactly is a "good chunk", thats my point. Maybe I consider 50% to be a "good chunk", while you condier 90%. Using words like "good chunk" isn't really going to help us.

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Kharagh
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#22 Post by Kharagh » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:16 pm

I like Ranos and Bastion-Bux way of morale loss and gain.

in addition to this we could use a 2 category system

1. how many ships fought in a battle
After all ppl are not merely concerned with losses, but also with how BIG a battle was.

ships player1 + ships player2 = size of battle

<10 ships: 1% moral
<20 ships: 2% moral
<40 ships: 3% moral
<80 ships: 4% moral
...


2. how much the amount of ships differs on both sides
if 100 ships defeat 5 ships of the enemy, ppl will not be very impressed by ´their fleet.

for example we could make size categories like this:
<=5 ships
<=10
<=20
<=40
<=80
<=160

same category: 1
1 cat apart: 2
2 cat. apart: 3
.
.
.
now an example:

player 1: 10 ships
player2: 40 ships

size of battle: 50 ships
there fleet sizes are 2 categories apart -> 3

The final moral gain (or loss) will be the moral for a battle with 50 ships devided by three.
so you would get: 4% moral for battle size (between 40 and 80 ships)/3 = 1,33% rounded up or down as you please.

I hope you were able to follow my somewhat confusing explanation :D

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solartrix
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#23 Post by solartrix » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:10 pm

Idea for the floor: How about a hitpoint destroyed vs. hitpoint lost system?

After a battle, the hitpoints of all the ships destroyed are used to calculate any sort of moral bonuses or penalties.

Moral bonus ~ hitpoints destroyed / hitpoints lost / hitpoints of your orignal fleet

If you wipe out a large fleet without losing many ships you get a great boost, if you loose a lot of ships but wipe of a big fleet, then it's a non-boost, if you loose a lot of ships without destroying many of the enemy, then it's a huge moral drain.

I'm sure we'd have to put some limits on it...

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