Rules of Engagement / Hails

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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Zeno
Space Floater
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Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:41 am

Rules of Engagement / Hails

#1 Post by Zeno »

How about having discussion before battles? As in having the admiral of the opponent's fleet hail me before battle? I might be willing to let another race's fleet pass by my border world on the way to another world but NOT to let them pass inside my borders. I also might (or not) let them "explore" this border world if they agree to leave next turn (A gameplay consideration: can I demand that they return where they came from, or just that they leave next turn?) This (rules of engagement) is a fundamental issue that would make any 4x game more interesting. Also, Moo3 would sometimes let me "hold position" and other times the least aggressive thing I could do is to "blockade planet," much more aggressive than "hold position." Of course, I might just "shoot on sight," as well. The whole point is to have as many options as possible. Also, there should be diplomatic considerations as well. To shoot on sight is different than to let them leave next turn (as long as it is to leave without entering my borders!) For gameplay's sake, they (or me, in a similar situation) should be disabled by the game from entering within the borders IF I (or they) had agreed not to do so.
A less aggressive way to explore would be to send exploration drones, ala Star Wars, which would explore unknown worlds then self-destruct. A gameplay option would be to enable exploration drones (I would willingly let other empires explore mine in return for exploring theirs) In multi-player internet play, all players would need to agree whether or not to do this before starting the game (the host would decide). Again, I will reiterate that this aspect of the game is sorely missing from most 4x games.

noelte
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#2 Post by noelte »

Nice idea.

but imo, this stuff should be handled by interrace relations. otherwise it might get very tedious.


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Last edited by noelte on Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LithiumMongoose
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#3 Post by LithiumMongoose »

I don't actually think exploration drones, while a cool idea, adds to gameplay in any helpful way. That's the role scout ships are for; if I'm at war with you I'd want to be able to shoot down any drones you send into my empire just like I would shoot down your scout ships, and at least on planets with defenses and good scanners I'd like to think I'd be able to find them (for purposes of shooting them down) before they land. If you want to make a diplomacy option for "allow me to scout you if you can scout me", then just have it pertain to completely-unarmed ships (excluding colony ships since laying up a colony inside another person's empire is definitely an aggressive action). The beauty of completely-unarmed ships is the game can automatically check to see that they qualify for the scouting-treaty, and they can't actually blockade anything without at least a single wimpy laser cannon (short of threatening to ram or self-destruct on the freighter), but because they're ships (not generic drones) you still get to control what engines, defenses, and non-offensive gadgets they have.

But as to the first part... that is so desperately needed it's not even funny. Seriously. The ability to tell the other player (human or AI, doesn't really matter) that I'm just passing through, or just exploring, and in either case will move along next turn and not suffer any political fallout if the other person agrees... mmm.

Course, I suppose noelte has a point, you could theoretically harass another human player by sending him endless "would you mind if I went here?" requests every turn. You'd then have to add an "ignore all requests from Player X" option, orrrr just go with the Civ3 solution: right-of-passage agreements. That presumably would be one step up from right-of-unarmed-passage agreements aka exploration treaties. Yeah that's probably better, heh.

Ranos
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#4 Post by Ranos »

While it would add something to the game, I think having to do that before every space battle would add too much. Being allowed to pass through a system is easily accomplished with the MOO3 hold position/blockade planet option. The difference between the two was if you went to a system which had no worlds controlled by other races, but did have an alien ship, you got the 'hold position' option. If there was a controlled world, you got the 'blockade planet' option. While they functioned similarly, they are different. If you blockaded the planet, no resources would get through. I lost a few worlds that had staarted from migration due to being blockaded by colony ships from multiple empires. This was ridiculous in more ways than one.

Whenever an alien fleet enters a system both sides should get engagement options similar to MOO3. These will also depend on whether system combat or planetary combat is used. For planetary combat, the options would be: Hold Position, Intercept Fleet, Defend Planet for defenders and Hold Position, Blockade Planet, Intercept Fleet and Attack Planet for the attackers. If system combat is used, the Intercept Fleet options are removed and the Attack Planet/Defend Planet options become Attack/Defend.
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Zeno
Space Floater
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#5 Post by Zeno »

I had intended for the "hail from enemy fleet" to be a gameplay option, which would be enabled or disabled when selecting gameplay options to start a new game.

discord
Space Kraken
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#6 Post by discord »

actualy it is a pretty good idea, and could be used to good effect.

as for instance, you could send out a champion, and 'bet' on the outcome, only a set number of ships(a single one for instance), and leave the majority of the fleet intact, could be useful if the leaders see that it would be a costly fight, with no clear winner, and wants to play it 'safe'....

my system is attacked, and it would be a costly show even if i win....so i am betting that my champion ship(veteran crew, and latest design) will prevail....we each send our champion forth to do battle....and the winner takes the system.

just one of many thing that could be done using such a system.
/edit
not to forget, you can always TRY to cheat....or not honor the bet....or...other less then honest things...aslong as you get away with it.
/edit

Zpock
Space Kraken
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#7 Post by Zpock »

Troy...

Nice idea, sounds really cool. The talking between ships always was a major part of star trek and such. Just allow the player to turn down "the enemy admiral is hailing you sir?" or say "on screen!". So you don't have to talk for 5 minutes every time one of your scout ships stumble into the enemy fleet. Make it a large battle thing, of course, some explorer meets alien talking (like star trek) is never wrong.

Impaler
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#8 Post by Impaler »

Perhaps "Instant Pre-Combat Diplomacy" is more descriptive of what you ment. Players get the option of making some demands and other players being able to turn them down. Much like HOMM inwhich you can offer to surender and pay some gold to leave the battle. Conversly you could "pay off" space pirates or enemy races to get them to leave you alone.
Fear is the Mind Killer - Frank Herbert -Dune

Zpock
Space Kraken
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#9 Post by Zpock »

It would be nice if the pre-battle diplomacy could be handled before the battle loads. So you can ask measly forces and single ships to leave or surrender to you instead of having to load in the battle. This could actually save some time from all these one ship vs an armada scenarios that takes 10 secounds to load up and then 20 secounds of watching a pointless "battle".

JamieK
Space Krill
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#10 Post by JamieK »

Well, i know i love a good space battle and invasion here and there, but sometimes i wanna be like the Federation from Star Trek, so it would be good for there to be a peaceful solution to every situation.

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