Ships suggestions

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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Elethiomel
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#31 Post by Elethiomel » Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:56 pm

Slots? We're talking slots? IMO, the limit on number of "big" guns in a ship should be a question of tonnage and volume only.

Slots make for restrictive ship design. This is bad from the POV of the player. Slots are one of the reasons I always liked the Imperium Gallactica series much less than the MOO series.

Slots make sense in a game like Freelancer where you buy designed-to-standard hulls with hardpoints (slots) for weapons, turrets, etc. I do not think they make sense in a game like FreeOrion where you direct your engineers ("I want a ship that's full of guns. Big guns! Sacrifice speed, manueverability, armour... give me big guns!") to build the ship you want. This restriction would detract much fun from the game, at least from my perspective.

I like the penalty/bonus for ship role system. A carrier hull should be designed differently from a point defense hull - giving the carrier hull better use of its tonnage/volume for the purpose of fitting and launching fighters.

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Geoff the Medio
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#32 Post by Geoff the Medio » Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:47 pm

drek wrote:The Vell-os, with their uber mind powers, can construct ships made of pure psionic energy.
Whether created with psi powers or not, it's still energy...
You can have psi-parts on normal ships because a trained mental-powers guy can be aboard to "construct" it. Psi-parts would generally do spooky things, like mind control enemy ships.
No objections here. I figured telepathic point defence and telepathic fighters would be great if they mind controlled other fighters. Telekinetic point defence could prematurely activate the warheads in missiles. I'd also like telepathic and kinetic powers for bioships as main weapons, but not on other kinds of ship. The idea here is that a single normal "creature" wouldn't have the range or power to do any real damage, but stick them permanently into a bioship, ala shadow vessels and you get a unique powerful feature for bioships that can mind control or kill loads of crew on other ships (making them good for capturing rather than destroying, perhaps). (though as a power, not a weakness like shadow vessels).
There should be more than one psi hull, as I am hoping there will be a psionic race that uses 'em exclusively.
If a race only uses psi-energy hulls, then it could still be only a single type of hull, but one that can be infinitely upgraded by "adding on" the extra psi energy of another sacrificed being to make the hull bigger and better and such... But having multiple (psi)-energy hulls is fine as well.
Thus, I'd suggest going with "small", "medium", "large", "huge" hulls...
Sounds fairly boring. Each hull has to be a 3d model--so there's going to be a "theme" with each hull anyway.
I don't see bordom as a big problem for describing hull sizes generically. There can be descriptive names for the role a ship has, but the size should use terms that have meaning across all hull categories. The "medium size metal hull" might be called a "escort cruiser" if it's outfitted for that role, or an "escort carrier" or "battle cruiser" or "scanner ship" as appropriate for it's equipment loadout. I don't see the need for or benefit from giving hull sizes descriptive names. They're redundant, imo... a particular ship has a size, hull type and mission profile... why does it need another name? Instead of "Escort Carrier - Medium Metallic Hull", you'd have "Escort Carrier - Cruiser Hull" which you'd have to look up and cross reference to compare usefully to hulls of other types of ships. That said, I guess I wouldn't object much if you could think up hull size names that don't infringe on ship mission profiles... meaning no corvettes, cruisers, battleships, dreadnaughts, carriers, frigates, etc. "capital ship" is ok, but somewhat misleading, as the size of ship that is a "capital" ship is really alway just the biggest hull type that can be built for a given time period. Modern "destroyers" weight more than an age of sail "ship of the line", which was essentially a pre-ironclad battleship. Generic sizes like "tiny" and "colossal" thus seem the best way to go, to me...
There shouldn't be hybrid hulls.

a: each ship has to be a 3d model. The hybrids multiple the number of models required. And then multiple the number of models required again if each race has it's own set of models.
If each race doesn't have it's own hulls, that's say, 8 hull types times 8 hull sizes = 64 models. Not so bad. If each race is supposed to have it's own model, that's going to be several hundred models at least, either way, which I don't think is practical.
b: A "metal" ship hull with a bio thingy sticking out of it's weapon's slot and a caprice armor texture is going to look and function like a hybrid.
Circular argument...? "We shouldn't have hybrids because if we don't, we'll do something that's works how hybrid would if we did have them." The point of a hybrid is that they are extra cool powerful ships you can't get right away, and which have stragetic options not available to other classes because of their ability to combine parts from more than one class. They also have non-equipment benefits of both types of hull. We can also ask the modellers to make models that really capture the essence of a union of two hull types, and don't just look like one with the other's parts tacked on.
I was thinking of popular sci-fi examples of hybrids: the terran-shadow tech ships in B5 and Talon from Farscape. Talon looks like a bio ship, with metal parts stuck on The terran-shadow ships look like metal ships with bio parts stuck on.
Ok... so those are hybrids... what's your point? That a bio-metal hybrid looks like one with the other's parts stuck on doesn't mean that's how they actually function in the game. As above, We can ask the modellers to make something original, which looks like a real union of the two types of ship.
The components would determine the roles of the various ship hulls. The base hull would just have a small set of pluses and minuses, I think.

The set of bio components would skew in one direction, psi components in another, etc., suggesting common roles and abilities for each hull type.
Both components on a particular hull and base abilities should be a factor in ship functionality. Any class of hull should have the ability to fill almost any ship role (battleship, carrier, cruiser, destroyer, sub, supply, scanner, C&C, combat effects ship). Perhaps asteroids don't make good subs, and bioships don't make good battleships compared to the other hull types, but they still can do something resembling the roll.

In my system, asteroid hulls have lots of "rock" armour "built-in" for free, making them good tanks. Later, they get proto-shielding that reinforces this rock before other hull types get anything resembling energy shields. Later when real energy shields show up, they work best on metal hull ships. Bioships on the other hand have better inheirent radar / detection characteristics, so make good cloaked shiped, and perhaps good subs when those techs appear. Metal ships have a greater variety of armour types usable, but asteroids have generally bigger weapon mounts for the same cost. Bioships have weaker weapons and armour, but are cheaper and faster to "grow" than other classes of ship. Bioships also get regeneration. Metal ships are good with beams, and have a small enough size to functionally use point defence. Asteroids can't use point defence because they're generally too big, though larger bio and metal hulls would have the same drawbacks when tech advances to allow them to be built / grown. Asteroids are slow and not manouvrable due to all the built-in armour. Metal ships can be slow if the pack on the armour, but have the option of not doing so. Bioships are generally very light and fast, but larger ones get slowed down just like other classes. Energy ships (psi or otherwise) can have similar sets of characteristics.

Thought: If a death star is made from an asteroid hull, and the largest asteroid hull literally is made from a small moon, then you could say "That's not a moon... that's a space station. Oh wait... it's also a moon... nevermind." ... hmm... I guess that was funnier in concept than in practice...

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#33 Post by drek » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:28 am

Slots make for restrictive ship design. This is bad from the POV of the player. Slots are one of the reasons I always liked the Imperium Gallactica series much less than the MOO series.
The ships are probably going to be 3d models. Parts will have to attach to the model at specific points, hence slots.

geoff:
If each race doesn't have it's own hulls, that's say, 8 hull types times 8 hull sizes = 64 models. Not so bad. If each race is supposed to have it's own model, that's going to be several hundred models at least, either way, which I don't think is practical.
You'll note that I've only got 3 to 4 hull sizes, intentionally to cut down on the number of hull models required.

Further, not every hull will be a race unique model, only those that the race is commonly expected to use.

So humans would have their own metal hulls, but would use generic bio, rock, and psi hulls. A psi race would have generic rock, metal, and bio hulls. The zerg would have unique bio hulls, generic everything else.
Asteroids can't use point defence because they're generally too big
I'd rather this be a function of the simulation, rather than a hard coded fact. Meaning, you can attach a PD weapon on to an asteriod hull, but due to the size of the vessel it's only covering a percentage of ship.
The point of a hybrid is that they are extra cool powerful ships you can't get right away
I'm imaging each race will (at the start of the game) have enough theoretical research completed to build a single type of hull/parts. For example, "metal" for humans, bio for zerg, psi for psilions, rock for space-dwarves (or whatever.) The theoretical research to produce other types of hulls/parts would be very very expensive (perhaps impossible in some cases)--much easier to steal or barter for than research yourself.

So a: the extra cool ships come into play when you can finally build hybrids via attaching (for example) bio parts onto metal ships.

The extra *powerful* ships are a result of refinement. Via refineing a specific hull through research, it slowly becomes stronger. Perhaps there can be different levels--once you reach "level two" corvette hulls, they evolve like pokemon into a different looking shape--purely as a visual thing to give the player a sense of accomplishment. Course, this would depend on how many 3d models can be realstically produced.

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#34 Post by guiguibaah » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:58 am

My humble musings...

Metal Ships
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Metal ships are normal ships ALA moo3 sense. Armour, Hull and Systems. Standard ship sizing, most races default to metal ship designs. (Humans, Cybernetics, etc). Set as a standard base. Good shields, Good maneuvrability. Explode when destroyed, go derelict when all systems knocked out. Versatile.


Asteroid Ships
Image

Asteroid ships are bumped up a default ship size. "Frigate" sized asteroid is the equivalent of "Cruiser" sized Metal ship. One or two races have asteroid ships. Have much higher 'hitpoints'. Very high structure, high systems, low armor. Slow speed, poor shields. High chance they go derelict instead of exploding, allowing for retrieval if combat successful, or enemy capture if combat is a failure.


Bio Ships
Image

Bio ships are standard size compared to metal ships. One or two races have bio ships (maybe Gas giants). Fair armour, fair systems, poor structure. If a bio ship is destroyed, two smaller ships spawn from it from a lower class - 1 light cruiser splits into 2 corvettes, 1 heavy cruiser splits into 2 frigates. Small autoheal (innate autorepair) during combat (like the Mycon Podship from SC2).


Energy Ships
Image

Energy ships are smaller size compared to metal ships. "Frigate sized" energy ship is considered the "Corvette" sized ship for a Metal ship. Only one race has energy ships. Poor armour, structure, entire ship is almost entirely systems. Excellent shields. High maneuvrability. Stand-Off weapons do 50% less damage against energy ships - energy stand-off weapons do 50% less damage against other ships. Medium / close range weapons have damage bonus. Tactic is to get in closer. Weapons do 25% more damage to systems of all other ships. Bonus to enemy ship capture.


Anyhow, that's my take. I feel Moo2 and Moo3 lacked the ship diversity that FO could possibly make up for. In Moo's, a Sillicoid/Saurian/Klackon ship with 3 lazers was exactly the same as a human ship with 3 lazers.
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#35 Post by Daveybaby » Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:06 am

re : asteroid ships - ugh, ugh and thrice ugh. I think w.r.t. 'rock' ship hulls we should be thinking 'crystalline' instead of 'stone age'.
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#36 Post by drek » Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:49 am

Crystalline ships seem dorky to me. Reminds me of cheezy 70s sci-fi ("battle beyond the stars!", etc.)

Asteriod ships actually make some sense to me, and look pretty cool in my mind's eye.

Though, as guiguibaah has (inadvertantly?) shown, there'd big potential for asteriod ships to look like flying crap. :P

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Geoff the Medio
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#37 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:08 pm

drek wrote:The ships are probably going to be 3d models. Parts will have to attach to the model at specific points, hence slots.
That's a pretty poor justification for slots... Graphics should display what ships are in a battle as best as possible... but we shouldn't let graphical limitations dictate game design decisions. That said, I think slots do provide some useful game design features. Perhaps a given ship hull size starts with a certain number of slots (optionally different for different classes of hull, and optionally modified by race). Refinements of hull designs, among other things, could increase the number of slots of a ship.
You'll note that I've only got 3 to 4 hull sizes, intentionally to cut down on the number of hull models required.

Further, not every hull will be a race unique model, only those that the race is commonly expected to use.
Both these can apply to a system with hybrid hulls as well. I also don't see how you can claim that adding 3 classes of hybrid hulls will be a huge burden on model makers when you want to have about one unique hull model each race...
Asteroids can't use point defence because they're generally too big
I'd rather this be a function of the simulation, rather than a hard coded fact. Meaning, you can attach a PD weapon on to an asteriod hull, but due to the size of the vessel it's only covering a percentage of ship.
That's fine by me.
The point of a hybrid is that they are extra cool powerful ships you can't get right away
I'm imaging each race will (at the start of the game) have enough theoretical research completed to build a single type of hull/parts. [...] The theoretical research to produce other types of hulls/parts would be very very expensive (perhaps impossible in some cases)--much easier to steal or barter for than research yourself.

So a: the extra cool ships come into play when you can finally build hybrids via attaching (for example) bio parts onto metal ships.
I don't see how just attaching a few early bio parts to a metal hull is going to make an amazing powerful ship. I envision hybrid ships as being more than the sum of the base hulls they're built on... They'd have bonuses / advantages / abilities from both base hulls they derive from, and the additional bonus of being able to use parts from both base hull types. This is also compatible with hull refinement... and makes it more strategic, in that you can refine your current base hulls now, or research for hybrid hulls and refine them to be better off later.
once you reach "level two" corvette hulls, they evolve [...] as a visual thing [...] Course, this would depend on how many 3d models can be realstically produced.
Yeah, is models a problem or not? Too many models was your main reason not to use hybrid hulls... (other than it not fitting with your plan to put parts on other hull types).

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#38 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:22 pm

Daveybaby wrote:re : asteroid ships - ugh, ugh and thrice ugh. I think w.r.t. 'rock' ship hulls we should be thinking 'crystalline' instead of 'stone age'.
"Crystalline" can perhaps be another class of hull if you're desparate for them, but hollowing out asteroids is a sufficiently different/unique way of building ships, that fits with various types of races well enough, that it's worth including, imo.
guiguibaah wrote: ... If a bio ship is destroyed, two smaller ships spawn from it from a lower class ...
Uhhh.... my reaction is "no". Maybe a severely damaged / disabled bioship could be repaired into a smaller ship. I had previously been thinking that bioships would continuously grow bigger throughout their "life".

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#39 Post by drek » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:32 pm

Graphics should display what ships are in a battle as best as possible... but we shouldn't let graphical limitations dictate game design decisions.
If we want ships' appearances to be modified by attached equipment, then it's an important consideration. It might be impractical to do so anyway, dependant upon the detail of the ship's geometry, the number of ships in combat at one time, and the sophestication of the 3d engine.
Yeah, is models a problem or not? Too many models was your main reason not to use hybrid hulls... (other than it not fitting with your plan to put parts on other hull types).
I'm just not seeing how researching a whole new hull type (bio-rock bio-metal, or whatever) is significatly different from researching a connection tech (attach bio to metal) except that with a new hull type comes the expectation that there'll be more hull models. (with more unique hulls, so that not every empires ships look alike, with possbily more hull levels, so that different tech levels of hulls look different.)

Plus, I think the gist of the tech model as passed was that parts should remain useful through out the entire game via refinement. The hybrid hulls would seem to usurp non-hybrid hulls, no?

Uhhh.... my reaction is "no". Maybe a severely damaged / disabled bioship could be repaired into a smaller ship. I had previously been thinking that bioships would continuously grow bigger throughout their "life".
Two smaller ships spawn upon death? Same reaction: "no thanks."

Bioships growing: maybe. Not sure what the mechanics would be. Would this mean that you'd be able to put new ship parts on to the "adult" bioship? Might make for a messy gameflow to have to remember to upgrade your adult bioships. Also, I was thinking that (like Homeworld2) smaller ships are built as squadrons, rather than indivdual units (as explained in the Build public review, to help keep the # of queue items and units under control). As bioships grow, would they split off from their squadron?

hrm, maybe when you design a bioship, you design it for all stages of life:
* Spore 3 slots (plus engine/defense)
* Adult +3 slots (plus better or equal engine/defenses)
* Levathin +3 slots and + 1 big slot (plus better or equal engine/defenses)
* Ancient gains size (and therefore moves slower) without gaining slots or hit points

or something like that. Wouldn't want to have too many stages, or it might be too tedious for the player designing the ship.

As a bioship grows (faster with combat xp perhaps), it evolves until it reaches the completed design. Empires would only be able to build Spores, then would have to wait for the ship to "grow up". Unlike other ships, bioships might even have an expiration date, when they die of old age.

Using the scheme, bioships might be exempt from squadron thingy--you'd build one spore at a time (since each has the potential to become a captial sized ship).

EDIT: Might use the same scheme for psionic energy ships, reflecting the growing experience of the "pilot", cept that they would only grow in size through XP.

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#40 Post by pd » Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:12 pm

If we want ships' appearances to be modified by attached equipment, then it's an important consideration. It might be impractical to do so anyway, dependant upon the detail of the ship's geometry, the number of ships in combat at one time, and the sophestication of the 3d engine.
it's also impractical because this would limit or even destroy the overall design of the ships. i would prefer having only basic hulls and not placing components all over them.

just my 2 cents.

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#41 Post by noelte » Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:33 pm

seeing which weapons are attached to ship by looking on it would be nice. But in the end i think it would limit the ship design possibilities. It's imo not worth the effort and you will see which weapons your opponent uses when he fires onto your ships.
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#42 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:02 pm

drek wrote:If we want ships' appearances to be modified by attached equipment, then it's an important consideration.
I disagree. Yes, it'd be nice if the 3D models can be made detailed enough and sized correctly to be both rendered at a decent speed and show differences between ship components, but the tactical / strategic considerations are more important than the graphical ones.
I'm just not seeing how researching a whole new hull type (bio-rock bio-metal, or whatever) is significatly different from researching a connection tech (attach bio to metal)
Hulls have properties other than what parts are researched for use on them. Hybrid hulls have the advantages of two kinds of hull, and possibly some other unique advantages of their own.
Yeah, is models a problem or not? Too many models was your main reason not to use hybrid hulls... (other than it not fitting with your plan to put parts on other hull types).
[...] except that with a new hull type comes the expectation that there'll be more hull models. (with more unique hulls, so that not every empires ships look alike, with possbily more hull levels, so that different tech levels of hulls look different.)
As hybrid hulls are not available from the start of the game, it's not necessary that there be unique models for them for various races. A justification for unique hulls would be that all races develop their first hull designs in isolation, so go end up with unique designs for their first type of hull. For hybrid hulls, or hulls from the first set that are developed later, a race will do so after exposure to other races, so end up developing more generic-looking designs.
Plus, I think the gist of the tech model as passed was that parts should remain useful through out the entire game via refinement. The hybrid hulls would seem to usurp non-hybrid hulls, no?
No more so than later weapon developments like plasma might make earlier ones, like lasers, less often the best choice. Hybrid hulls have advantages, but are not necessarily always the best choice to use for a particular ship. You'd still use whatever your first class of hulls was even after developing the hybrids. In the same way, a laser would be your only choice at the start of the game, and would still be useful after you develop plasma weapons.
Bioships growing: maybe. Not sure what the mechanics would be.
Here are some possibilities... (throwing them out there...)

When you start building a bioship, you specify it's equipment (weapons) layout, and this is fixed for the ship's life. When the ship finishes building, which only takes a few turns (significantly less than metal or asteroid) you get a tiny, or perhaps "hatchling" or "juvenile" or "newborn" ship. As the ship ages, it gets bigger, turning into a "tiny" then "small" then "medium" and so forth ship over time (the delay for each growth stage getting longer than the previous).

When a bioship gets bigger, it grows new weapons of the same kind(s) the ship already has, in fixed proportions.

Rather than having techs which determine the size of the biohull you can build, like in metal or asteroid hulls, you'd have techs that unlock "breeds" of ship, which have different properties such as maximum size they could grow to, regeneration, the size of weapon(s) they can grow and such. This could mean that the first breed of biohull can only be equipped with a single type small weapon (it would grow multiple copies of this weapon as it grows up to it's max size). Another breed could have two small weapon types, and the weapons the ship grows over time would be evenly split between these. Another breed could have a medium weapon slot, or one large, one small, etc.

Whether breeds are balanced so that having a large weapon slot means you have a smaller maximum size, or latter breeds are always better is debatable. Perhaps you'd want to limit yourself to a smaller breed so that your ship wouldn't grow too big and get slow and be useless for its intended mission, which requires a faster ship (which is also harder to spot / track due to its size).

hrm, may be when you design a bioship, you design it for all stages of life:
* Spore 3 slots (plus engine/defense)
* Adult +3 slots (plus better or equal engine/defenses)
* Levathin +3 slots and + 1 big slot (plus better or equal engine/defenses)
* Ancient gains size (and therefore moves slower) without gaining slots or hit points

or something like that. Wouldn't want to have too many stages, or it might be too tedious for the player designing the ship.
Exactly... I want to avoid having to search through your ships and assign stuff to new build slots that have grown each turn. Hence fixed equipment layouts throughout lifetime of bioship as above, rather than a new slots occasionally. You get your bioship up and running faster and cheaper, but you have to plan ahead and are less flexible with the equipment on your biggest ships, which take a long time to grow to that size.
Also, I was thinking that (like Homeworld2) smaller ships are built as squadrons, rather than indivdual units (as explained in the Build public review, to help keep the # of queue items and units under control). As bioships grow, would they split off from their squadron?
I'm not keen on having smaller ships required to be built in squadrons. This is mainly because the roll a ship takes based on its size, and the number you can build (so the loads of small ships issue) is dependent on the general tech level of the game, and not the absolute size of the ship.

At the start of a game, if all you have is small ships, then small ships take on all the roles of ship, if they exist, such as battleship or carrier or scout or picket and such. You'd build as many as you can, which wouldn't be many (low output early industry), so they should not be built in (forceD) squadrons. I'm not sure if you meant small ships would always be built in squadrons or just later in the game... but that's my view.

Regarding later-game squadrons specifically, I'm not sure they'd be necesasry either. Things could be balanced such that spending PP on large ships is always more efficieint for direct combat than spending on smaller ones, but making big ships for things other than combat is comparably less efficient... you're better off making smaller ships for these rolls. Additionally, for a big fleet, you'd want about equal numbers of ships in each roll, meaning if you have five battleships and five carriers, you'd want five picket ships, five sensor ships, and five sub-hunters for optimal protection (and maybe a few other rolls). Having a broad range of rolls for ships, and making it ineffective to just make tons of small ships if you're planning to fight battles means that there's quite a variety of small ships in a fleet, and not a whole lot of the same ship, meaning you don't need squadrons of them built at once.
As a bioship grows (faster with combat xp perhaps), it evolves until it reaches the completed design. Empires would only be able to build Spores, then would have to wait for the ship to "grow up". Unlike other ships, bioships might even have an expiration date, when they die of old age.
... no combat xp for growing. experience can give experience-derived things for biohulls just like crewed hulls (do bioships have "crew" ?), such as reaction time and perhaps repair / regeneration, but not growth.
EDIT: Might use the same scheme for psionic energy ships, reflecting the growing experience of the "pilot", cept that they would only grow in size through XP.
Using exp for energy ship growth might make more sense... though I thought the ship was built by the sacrifice of the life off a psi-being...? how do you gain experience if you're dead? Do the crew decide that beacause they're more experienced, it's time to sacrifice a few more of themselves to make the ship bigger?
Last edited by Geoff the Medio on Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#43 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:08 pm

pd wrote:it's also impractical because this would limit or even destroy the overall design of the ships. i would prefer having only basic hulls and not placing components all over them.
You mean you don't like slots (preferring just mass limits on a hull and a mass for each component), or you want civ-like preconfigured ships with no ship design at all? (Out of dislike for SMAC-like unit design like many civ-fans did for some reason I never understood...?)

Keep in mind that slots can make ship design more interesting by offereing a tradeoff between slot size and other features, like size, cost, ship mass, etc.
noelte wrote:seeing which weapons are attached to ship by looking on it would be nice. But in the end i think it would limit the ship design possibilities. It's imo not worth the effort and you will see which weapons your opponent uses when he fires onto your ships.
I concur. Ability to show weapons in slots on ship models in 3D is low priority.

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#44 Post by pd » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:37 pm

geoff, i was talking only about the 'visual design'(the apereance). my mistake, sorry.

of course i would like to have slots 'inside' the ship for the individual components.

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#45 Post by Impaler » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:38 pm

An idea I had conserning Weapon Mounts. Assuming we are using a Drag and Drop Interface (the best way to bo it I think) then We should Make the Mounting aka "Turret" its own Item that Drops into the Ship AND has a smaller slot inside for the actual weapons (more then one potentialy) to be droped inside. Droping a Weapon directly into the Hull is a Spinal Mount. By spliting the Turret off into its own descreate drag and drop item alows all the flexibility of the Mounts used in Moo2 in a friendlier visual feedback then a spread sheet.


I am in favor of a completly bottom up design system, If I can find some of my older threads I will bring up some of the Modular Hull ideas (basicly the "Hull" could be designed out of smaller bits and this finals design would determine the amount of stuff that can fit)

Another idea I had was for "Bulkheads" this is a type of internal Armor that seperates parts of the ship from itself rather then the inside from the outside as with external armor. Bulkheads make a ship more survivable when stuff is blowing up inside but dose nothing to actualy prevent said explosions from happening (its a purely preventative after the fact kind of defence and is best on capital ships). The players selects how Thick the Bulkheads are (same as with outside armor) and then selects the number of bulkheads desired. The Mass is equal to the Thickness x Number x Hullsize multiplier. When something in a ship blows up (like the Amo Magazine) the size of the explosion is compared to the thickness of the bulkhead and is either "contained" or "not contained" (maybe something in between as well). If its contained then a limited portion of the ships systems get damaged/destroyed equal too 1/(bulkheads +1) it could be simply a random selection process or something more complex. If uncontained then the explosion rips through as much of the ship as it can possibly destroying the whole thing.


Lastly I think Asteroid based ships are a bit silly, possibly they could be imobile bases but hollow Asteroids dont seem like a good idea for ships. Changing them to "Crystalin" and removing the idea that they are "big lumps of Rock" but rather well Crystals would be cooler in my opinion. Also the idea that Biological ships split into smaller types could be aplied with even better logic to a Crystal Ship, But rather then then always 2 of the next smaller size perhas a random assortment of all smaller sizes (think shatering).
The Psionic/Energy ships are they completly "made" of Energy without (or perhas just traces like a plasma) of Physical matter. I would imagine that only Non-Corporeal races would use these. I was just reading "The Gods themselves" by Clark and though of thouse strange gasious energy beings with 3 sexes in an alternate universe having this kind of ship.
Fear is the Mind Killer - Frank Herbert -Dune

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