Tech Tree UI

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Dilvish
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Tech Tree UI

#1 Post by Dilvish »

eleazar wrote: Some stats, like in the fleet window are inaccurate.
I thought I got that fixed sometime after 0.4.2 ... if you note a continuing problem please point it out.
Tech tree is still a pain to use. ... Branching is usually very hard to follow
I agree. A big part of the hassle that I encounter is that when restricting the display to a single tech branch, and then trying to follow a particular tech forward or backwards, the other branches rapidly get added in full totally cluttering the display. One idea that just came to me is a new arrangement/focus choice which would just show the currently selected tech and those techs one or two steps before and after it. Also, I have a pet peeve about adjusting tech queue order when I've already got a lot of techs in the queue. If we want to add something to the top of a big queue, we have to add it to the end, scroll down, then scroll drag it up to the top. It can be even more of a headache to track down a tech in a big queue & then move to the top. I'd like to be able to just drag the panel from the tree to list view over to the queue and be able to drop it into the desired slot, just like if it was dragged and dropped entirely within the queue. If there's no objection, one of these days I'll probably try to add that.
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eleazar
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Re: What's Next after v0.4.2?

#2 Post by eleazar »

Dilvish wrote:
eleazar wrote: Some stats, like in the fleet window are inaccurate.
I thought I got that fixed sometime after 0.4.2 ... if you note a continuing problem please point it out.
Based on my memory of other's reports. I may have missed/forgotten the fix(s).
Dilvish wrote:One idea that just came to me is a new arrangement/focus choice which would just show the currently selected tech and those techs one or two steps before and after it.
Like what the little "Navigation" window does, only formatted visually. Sounds better.
Dilvish wrote:I'd like to be able to just drag the panel from the tree to list view over to the queue and be able to drop it into the desired slot, just like if it was dragged and dropped entirely within the queue. If there's no objection, one of these days I'll probably try to add that.
Sounds useful and intuitive, and non-harmful to anyone that doesn't want to work that way.

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Re: What's Next after v0.4.2?

#3 Post by ogre »

Dilvish wrote:
eleazar wrote: Some stats, like in the fleet window are inaccurate.
I thought I got that fixed sometime after 0.4.2 ... if you note a continuing problem please point it out.
Tech tree is still a pain to use. ... Branching is usually very hard to follow
I agree. A big part of the hassle that I encounter is that when restricting the display to a single tech branch, and then trying to follow a particular tech forward or backwards, the other branches rapidly get added in full totally cluttering the display. One idea that just came to me is a new arrangement/focus choice which would just show the currently selected tech and those techs one or two steps before and after it. Also, I have a pet peeve about adjusting tech queue order when I've already got a lot of techs in the queue. If we want to add something to the top of a big queue, we have to add it to the end, scroll down, then scroll drag it up to the top. It can be even more of a headache to track down a tech in a big queue & then move to the top. I'd like to be able to just drag the panel from the tree to list view over to the queue and be able to drop it into the desired slot, just like if it was dragged and dropped entirely within the queue. If there's no objection, one of these days I'll probably try to add that.
maybe a right click and "insert selection and requirements to top of queue" ???
i'm still on 5771 so i don't know if the list-scrolling bug is addressed yet or not but a simple fix for that is just drag and swap an item in the list for a quick fix.
i've seen an auto-scrolling glitch since i started playing in both the tech and fleet windows
thanks for a great game. :)

Starcraft, Syndicate, Populous, Star Control II, Master of Orion, Master of Magic, X-COM UFO Defense, Spacehulk: Vengence of the Blood Angels.

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Dilvish
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Re: What's Next after v0.4.2?

#4 Post by Dilvish »

a simple fix for that is just drag and swap an item in the list for a quick fix
I don't think any of us really want a drag-and-swap. The current drag-and-drop fully within a queue works about as fine as such things can, it's just cumbersome if trying to move something from the end of a long queue to the beginning. The right-click idea is decent, but wouldn't supplant my interest in the tree-to-queue drag and drop. Speaking of which, I know that simple drag is used to reposition the zoomed tree, and I wouldn't look to change that, I really mean ctrl-drag-and-drop.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: What's Next after v0.4.2?

#5 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Dilvish wrote:...I really mean ctrl-drag-and-drop.
ctrl+double click or could also add to the top of the queue.

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eleazar
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Re: What's Next after v0.4.2?

#6 Post by eleazar »

Dilvish wrote:Speaking of which, I know that simple drag is used to reposition the zoomed tree, and I wouldn't look to change that, I really mean ctrl-drag-and-drop.
Dragging a tech could drop it into the queue. Dragging on the space between the techs repositions the tree. It would still be pretty intuitive, more-so than requiring a key to drag a tech, once old players have made the transition.

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Re: What's Next after v0.4.2?

#7 Post by ogre »

Dilvish wrote:
The right-click idea is decent, but wouldn't supplant my interest in the tree-to-queue drag and drop.
my intent isn't to supplant or subvert either, but to supplement. :)
thanks for a great game. :)

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eleazar
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Re: Tech Tree UI

#8 Post by eleazar »

Would it be much of a pain to switch the way theories and applications are displayed in the tree. The current theories are displayed up bigger, and thus the small fraction of techs (which are also the less important ones) are the most legible.

Alternatively, both applications and theories could look like theories currently do in the tree. Theories are quite possibly on their way to extinction, so differentiating them visually will probably be increasingly unimportant, and isn't very important now.


I've got some ideas to increase the legibility of the tree when zoomed out, which will require some more thought and mockups.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Tech Tree UI

#9 Post by Geoff the Medio »

eleazar wrote:Would it be much of a pain to switch the way theories and applications are displayed in the tree.
Depends how much of a change it is...

I've long thought the techs on the tree could be made to look much like the techs on the queue, both of which could be made to more resemble tooltips with icons, title and text. There could also be game-UI standard icons for unlocked things, or a brief text description, on the tree version of the tech, though, which wouldn't go on the queue version.

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Dilvish
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Re: Tech Tree UI

#10 Post by Dilvish »

eleazar wrote:Would it be much of a pain to switch the way theories and applications are displayed in the tree.
If by "switch" you mean "swap", I would think it easy to accomplish.
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eleazar
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Re: Tech Tree UI

#11 Post by eleazar »

Dilvish wrote:
eleazar wrote:Would it be much of a pain to switch the way theories and applications are displayed in the tree.
If by "switch" you mean "swap", I would think it easy to accomplish.
Yeah, swap. The change would just be a stop-gap, something i personally wouldn't bother with unless it was fairly trivial.

Geoff the Medio wrote:I've long thought the techs on the tree could be made to look much like the techs on the queue, both of which could be made to more resemble tooltips with icons, title and text. There could also be game-UI standard icons for unlocked things, or a brief text description, on the tree version of the tech, though, which wouldn't go on the queue version.
Too much info in the queue items to work well with zooming, i think, unless we change the appearance of the techs in the tree depending on zoom level.

Direction i want to go:
  • * Present the basic info in a tool-tip, so it is available at all zooms.

    * Remove RP & turns info from tree

    * Make the tech icon as big as possible. When zoomed out perhaps show only the tech icon.

    * I like the idea of icons to show generally what a tech does

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Tech Tree UI

#12 Post by Geoff the Medio »

I made ctrl+double click put techs at the top of the queue.

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Dilvish
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Re: Tech Tree UI

#13 Post by Dilvish »

Geoff the Medio wrote:I made ctrl+double click put techs at the top of the queue.
Thanks, that's excellent! Could I propose a slight additional change? The current ResearchWnd::AddTechsToQueueSlot skips over techs that are already in the Queue, which means the ctrl+double click can't be used to reposition anything already in the queue (and doesn't work as well if adding something with prereqs already somewhere down in the queue) . Rather then the check being simply !InQueue I'd propose that the check be along the lines of
!InQueue || cur_pos > pos
so as to be compatible with repositioning towards the top of the queue.
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Re: Tech Tree UI

#14 Post by qsswin »

Why was the tech navigator removed? I though it was very useful for jumping to the techs a tech unlocks that are in another category when you are looking at just the category the tech itself is in (though it was admittedly sometimes buggy).

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Re: Tech Tree UI

#15 Post by Dilvish »

qsswin wrote:Why was the tech navigator removed? I though it was very useful for jumping to the techs a tech unlocks that are in another category when you are looking at just the category the tech itself is in (though it was admittedly sometimes buggy).
Oh, yes -- I did find it quite helpful also; I think it was well worth the space it took.
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