parallell galaxies or multiple galaxies

[snakechia]

I'm with aq on this one, what is the point? If you want a huge game, just make the universe with thousands of star systems.

[noelte]

I'm with aq on this one, what is the point? If you want a huge game, just make the universe with thousands of star systems.

same here

[Krikkitone]

It depends on the nature of the transitions,

In a multiple iterative transition like I'd suggest, then you would effectively have a game with an infinite number of 'stars' in the 'universe' (although there might never be more than 1000 'occupiable spots' on the 'board').

Of course at some point that Might get boring, since you would be playing the game over and over again.. but it wouldn't be the same game, just a game with the same empire (moving from interstellar to intergalactic to intersupercluster to interuniversal to interdimensional to things we don't have a name for (but really just involve taking up more space) each time encountering a new map with new enemies)


This is something that admittedly falls into more of the 1.5 version, but it would be interesting and allow for an infinite expansiveness.

And it Could allow multiplayers to both develop in seperate 'degrees of separation'.. so the Psilons and the Humans don't meet until one of those empires develops interdimensional travel, or intergalactic travel depending on the situation.

[Geoff the Medio]

so the Psilons and the Humans don't meet until one of those empires develops interdimensional travel, or intergalactic travel depending on the situation.

Or, say, the ability to fly in three dimensions out of the "plane of space" ?

[Aquitaine]

Yeah. I get bored already towards the end of MOO or Civ-style games. Telling me that it never ends doesn't make go 'oh good, there goes the rest of my life.'

[drek]

Agree with Aq, noelte, etc:

I don't like it. Unless the game is massive multiplayer (and it's not), I don't see the need.

[hadrian_27]

If you want a bigger game, play a bigger galaxy .

Seriously, I don't understand the need for multiple galaxies, it's like saying let's make each star support 30 planets.

All this does is make the game BIGGER. It doesn't change strategic opportunity.

[Daveybaby]

It doesnt just "make the game bigger" it changes the structure, layout and pacing of the gameplay. It punctuates your expansion and contact with other races in a way that (potentially) keeps the game more interesting in the later stages.

One of the significant problems with 4x games (especially in SP, in my experience) is that once youve gotten past a certain point its obvious who is going to win. This point isnt even anywhere near the "controlling half of the galaxy" stage, its often very early on. The way most of these games end up (in SP) is with the player as the largest empire by about 1/3 of the way through the game. You dont have to be the largest by much, even a small lead is sufficient that, unless you mess up big time, youve actually already won. This is especially true in SP, since the player can usually manipulate the diplomatic process to stop other empires ganging up on them.

The whole point of multiple sectors/galaxies is to give the player an initial challenge, i.e. that of dominating your own sector, then at some point access between sectors is opened up, and all of a sudden you have to compete with a whole new set of races, hopefully with one race having become dominant in each sector, and thus who are potentially also well developed large empires comparable to your own, instead of the usual situation of you vs one other massive empire (if youre lucky) and a load of weaklings.

Its puntuated expansion - it maintains the 'dont know quite whats out there' factor until later in the game. It presents new challenges to the player as the game progresses, instead of just mopping up once youve got a stable well developed empire.

I dont know that its quite as important in MP games, because players tend to keep each other in check more in MP, and its not often immediately obvious who is going to win until the late game.

[discord]

personaly i like the 'multiple server interconnectivity' approach....
but the answer is a simple one, make the 'dimensional gate' insanely costlly, and cost/time is based on how many/heavy ships you want to send through, and no possibility to decide where they go in the next realm....oh, did i forget to mention that the whole thing slags due to the massive power required to pass through the dimensional wall?
so basicly, you get to send a colonization ship, with a small escort, trying to create a new empire....in a already empire ridden universe....

would be one HELL of a challenge, imho.

but this would ofcourse demand that three things are in the game...

#1 infinite technology(prolly done by refinement to a high degree), so that 'finished' techtree would be unlikely, preferably adding some hidden techtrees....

#2 technological dark ages, where tech gets forgotten, so that you have to reinvent the wheel.....not to forget that the ancient abandoned cruiser can be much more fun.....and again, so that it is unlikely to fill the tech tree.

#3 hidden colonies, so that you dont automaticly get detected once you pop in....


well, all this would work better in a MMORPG/strategy setting, then in the single/small group player oriented game this most likely will be, so you should just forget about it being in the official release.

//discord

/edit
and some other features me and my bro have thought about for a MMORPG/Strategy/Flightsim/FPS/Community/etc kinda game....
well, it was totaly unrealistic to begin with, and it just got worse, i think we got to the point were the calculated time to make it with a large game studio, or even a couple of'em.....would take more then 5 years to create...
/edit

[Zanzibar]

Something like that could be done well for single player with indefinite iterations

At any Game point,
You have your Smallest unit of measurement (for economic/political/ imperial control purposes, ie starts out at planets)
You have your Largest Game Unit (for diplomatic purposes.. what you can interact with)


Whenever you be come capable of reaching the 'next level'
smaller units are combined (planets-> systems-> 'sectors')
you move in to a larger 'game unit' and the previously 'blank terrain' is randomly filled in.
(just like the beginning of a FO game could be seen as a 'transition' from a planet level game ala Civ to a Space level game... enemy players are randomly scattered around in the new territory)
(once you got to sectors as the smallest unit, the game would essentially be a simple grid map each time similar to a game like Civ for every level therafter)

Of course the enemy players could have a random variety of starting strengths when you move to a new level, unlike when you start a game... some might still be like MOO2 Natives, only having a small interstellar, rather than intergalactic capability.. others might be bigger than you having reached the intergalactic stage earlier.

This model has the advantage that it could be used to extend the game indefinitely (always new worlds to eXpand, eXplore, eXploit, and new races to eXterminate)... as such any transition would be a 'do you want to win now point'.

Of course, you could be equally silly and do this process in reverse, and start out as continents or islands on a small planet just like civilization, and you don't even know about any other planets other then, possibly what is in your solar system... haha!!

[Impaler]

Dave Baby: Agree that most 4X games have a problem with the "victory is inevitable" problem. I think the solution is the Goose Principle "Its easier to follow then to lead". When your in the lead everyone else gets a bost and your not able to run away witht he game. Conversly when your behind you get helped so the game is always closer to that knife edge between winning and lossing (aka the FUN PART!)

[Krikkitone]

In general, the punctuated expansion is the best Idea and can be done without any fixed 'transitions' through two methods

1. A wide range in Transport technology (such that early game colonizing/invading a nearby star is a major undertaking, extending to the point where late game crossing the map is simple) [requires a Very large number of stars]

2. A Large number of 'starting empires'.. so you have to deal with your 5 nearest neighbors before you can get big enough to start dealing with the other 5 empires that just finished dealing with their 5 nearest neighbors (ie 32 would have to be the Low/minimum number of starting empires in the game.. the high being something like 250-500)

[snakechia]

ultimately in the end of the game, you will reach the point that you are just delaying...that your winning will be a forgone conclusion. Any way you look at it, no matter how many star systems, planets, galaxies, dimensions, universes, etc you have, eventually someone has to win, and it will be fairly obvious which player that will be.

IMO, the cleanup phase in a game with many different dimensions containing many starsystems would drive even the most dedicated micromanagers away.

[Daveybaby]

ultimately in the end of the game, you will reach the point that you are just delaying...that your winning will be a forgone conclusion. Any way you look at it, no matter how many star systems, planets, galaxies, dimensions, universes, etc you have, eventually someone has to win, and it will be fairly obvious which player that will be.

Its not *about* delaying the end of the game, or making the game bigger - its about having the option of a different structure to the flow of the game.

IMO, the cleanup phase in a game with many different dimensions containing many starsystems would drive even the most dedicated micromanagers away.

Well... thats surely one reason to have it then?

@Krikkit : you are right, but i feel that your 2 solutions would require significantly more plumbing and disruption to the structure of the game than what is basically just a variation in map type with some kind of event or tech which opens up certain routes for exploration at a certain stage of the game.

[Hangman]

mop up your own galaxy and become the antarrean terrorising nearby galaxies where slower races are still fighting for the domination of theirs. nyah nyah nyah.

and make it somehow hard/limited/extremely costly how much you can send to these trips to neighbouring galaxies.

maybe make a game type where conquesting/visiting/whatever X many galaxies' system where some random ancient ruin or whatever hard-to-reach victory thing is... when you got it from your home galaxy you start searching for it from other galaxies and once you got them all you win.

might change the game style for those in the slower finishing galaxies from bloody competition into realization of bigger threat suddenly being around and then being forced to unite efforts to keep these antarreans at bay and turn the tables and then eventually beat them on their home soil.

anyway. would need huge tech trees, i guess, to keep the game on after winning the normal scenario.


or or...
make some überhightech achievement of opening a wormhole that interconnects the galaxies for a random period of time at random points with a wormhole that fluctuates and dies? enough to seed the other galaxy and start new expansion from some unchecked backyard system and hope going undetected long enough to establish a foothold to fight back the lower-tech-but-stronger-numbers-in-this-galaxy natives once they sound the alarm.



... beats me.