We are in center of galaxy!

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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PL_Andrev
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We are in center of galaxy!

#1 Post by PL_Andrev »

On my 4X-space games the main problem at start was a location of player's home planets. Of course the location algorithm works fine and put players at distant position to self, but...

Yes - the problem was connected with starting position. Some players was placed on the edge of map, some at corner. There was problem for cornered players, they were losers... at game start. Frustrating.
At the Moo2/FO this problem is more problematic - the player has small chance to develop.

Proposed solution :

A sphere world

This idea is similar like torus world at "civilization" games. If this solution works on "civ" environment, why not on space-4X?
Of course I do not think about real sphere galaxy (solar systems at 3 dimensions inside sphere) or real 3D map on sphere (as earth map). I mean about movable 2D map.
Players can cross the line of right edge, in result there are on left edge.
Players can cross the line top edge, in result there are on bottom edge.

Additionally, each player can be located at center map at start game because map has no limits in this option...

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Bigjoe5
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#2 Post by Bigjoe5 »

Are you proposing a 3-dimensional galaxy? Because if so, the decision to have a 2D galaxy has been decided on for a long, long time, and was probably debated to death numerous times.

It seems like a better solution would be to balance the game so that players who start at the edge of the map aren't at a disadvantage.
Warning: Antarans in dimensional portal are closer than they appear.

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PL_Andrev
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#3 Post by PL_Andrev »

Bigjoe5 wrote:Are you proposing a 3-dimensional galaxy? Because if so, the decision to have a 2D galaxy has been decided on for a long, long time, and was probably debated to death numerous times.
Of course - not. Game should be simple. 3D map is not.

My picture with my conception does not look like 3-dimensional galaxy (one picture equals 1000 words).
It means "2D map but map without edges/corners" etc.

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pd
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#4 Post by pd »

What Andrev is describing is a self repeating map(look at the yellow arrows). This might indeed be an interesting play mode, but applies only to irregular galaxies.

Why is a player in the corner always at a disadvantage? Isn't his position easier to defend?

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PL_Andrev
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#5 Post by PL_Andrev »

pd wrote:This might indeed be an interesting play mode, but applies only to irregular galaxies.
Yes, an option - I thought about option when game start.
pd wrote:Why is a player in the corner always at a disadvantage? Isn't his position easier to defend?
Not exactly.
1. You can be easy enclosed.
2. You have no escape ways (if attacker's fleet is stronger)
3. You have no ways to support your fleet with other units.

But for me the most important problem is much limited exploration: races located on edge have 50% systems to explore than other located in the center of galaxy. Races at corner - only 25% (1/4 of direction are filled by stars), so they are losers at start game.

The human player expands his empire and spots other race, usually he changes direction of expanding. But there edge/corner races have not. If they have limited directions, they have less planets to colonize.

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Bigjoe5
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#6 Post by Bigjoe5 »

pd wrote:What Andrev is describing is a self repeating map(look at the yellow arrows). This might indeed be an interesting play mode, but applies only to irregular galaxies.
Ah, that makes sense. I like it.

But it's not a substitute for simply implementing well-balanced gameplay mechanics.
Warning: Antarans in dimensional portal are closer than they appear.

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Yeeha
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#7 Post by Yeeha »

strange, i have seen only few times when truly i have only one world to take and then theres enemy but if you arent so cornered then corner is massive advantage as when middle player gets into conflict with other neighbors you attack him aswell. Also if there are going to be wormholes then that will help with that problem aswell. Although that kind of map would be interesting as players have to play differently. They have to rely more on offensive than defense as there arent few chokepoints to empire. This option could be like in civ: either map is "open" horizontally, vertically or both.

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eleazar
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#8 Post by eleazar »

It remains to be seen weather starting locations on the edge of the galaxy are an advantage, disadvantage, or a wash. Personally i expect that it could be any of the above depending on galaxy size, number of players and a player's style, etc.

However, an "edge-less" map would probably be a nice option to have weather or not it solves a problem. Don't know how much of a pain it would be to implement, but i doubt it is trivial.

mZhura
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#9 Post by mZhura »

PL_Andrev wrote:Of course - not. Game should be simple. 3D map is not.
3D map IS simple. Try to play Ascendancy - you might like it ;)

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Gargamel
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#10 Post by Gargamel »

mZhura wrote:
PL_Andrev wrote:Of course - not. Game should be simple. 3D map is not.
3D map IS simple. Try to play Ascendancy - you might like it ;)
Ever try coding one from a code base already designed around a 2D map?

Kilvador
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Re: We are in center of galaxy!

#11 Post by Kilvador »

mZhura wrote:
PL_Andrev wrote:Of course - not. Game should be simple. 3D map is not.
3D map IS simple. Try to play Ascendancy - you might like it ;)
IMO, Ascendancy and MoO - can not be compared. MoO was completely realised with 2D star map, Ascendancy - with 3D. Both games have own benefits in gameplay.

2PL_Andrev: I like your Idea. IMO, there are a lot of benefits in this kind of 2D star map organisation.

Firstly, I would like to point out such facts as:
1. The probability of detecting the planet, ready for colonization, increases (no restriction on the direction, only restriction on the range).
2. The probability of quickly encounter other races increases. At the initial stage - possibly the formation of alliances or trade / academic assistance. Or simply eliminating an weakly opponent.

Course, this type of star map should be like options in game creating menu. By default, this type of map organisation should bee off.

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