Winning FreeOrion

[skdiw]

I know this might be prematured, but I thought to get the ball rolling since it might impact the way we design the graphic, audio, programming and other aspect of the game.

My list are:
1. SMAC's cultural victory: the race who has 3:1 cultural points determine every 50 turn at the galatic cultural meet wins. We can have winner of cultural meet get some extra bonus if they don't win the game. Of course having high culture has its advantage every turn of the game. We might get a visual on the galaxy map for cultural if we decide to do this.

2. Diplomatic: All relationship between all races has been in alliance or better for more than 50 turns without any one race mobilizing or army growing significantly in size. I don't like UN senate wins because most game base that off population and races that have pop bonus win too easily.

3. Secrets/wonder: The race that aquire them all for more than 50 turns.

4. Conquest: Control 70% of the map. I don't like 100% total conquest because by around 60%, you know you'll win; the rest is just clean-up with your super fleet going from systems to systems. Of course, we can have an options for those who like traditional system.

5. SMAC's economic: Buy out the other empire with resources!

6. High tech: First to finish research transcendence.

We should weigh carefully which victories are the most perferred so FO will be in gear to provide adequate depth. Most leaders out there perfer conquest so the tech tree are highly focused to weapons of mass destruction and half the game is based around fleets and combat. Nothing is wrong with military victory, but I like to be able to win with other ways.

[skdiw]

oops, double posted. I clicked submit and nothing happens except a screen that says you've posted too soon and can't post anther. Delete this one and use the other thread.

[Ablaze]

oops, double posted.

Based on what I know of message boards in general, I'm pretty sure you can just hit the delete button yourself and it will remove the entire thread as long as you do it before anyone replies to your post.

Try hitting the "Edit" button on the top right and checking the box for "Delete this post."

Edit:
Or that little X button to the right of the edit button He HAW!

[PowerCrazy]

On the website i'm pretty sure it has the proposal for victory conditions discussed on the old board. They are (in no particular order).

1. Sole Survivor
2. Allied Victory
3. Transcendance or research victory
4. 3-7 X's story victory.
5. Orion Senate

[Impaler]

Interesting ideas, I hope we can develop some completly unique victories but in the time being lets work on these.

An economic victory sounds like a nice idea but I dont like how it was implimented in SMAC. First off its very simplistic, you pile up some cash and press button. Then the only way to stop you is to destroy your Capital? Whats up with that, why dont they make it an economic battle, the other sides have to spend money to un-corner the market. Or perhaps if are resorce system is good we can have some kind of galactic Market that everyone is constantly buying and trading on, the economic victory would be achived by actualy buyying everything through wise investment and strategic purphases. It would help if you can actualy buy and sell a wideer varaitey or finished goods (factores, tecnologes, planets, ships, weapons, starlanes, military inteligence) in additon to just raw materials. If anyone here has some real education or knowlage of economics and stock markets some advicese would be greatly apreshiated.

[miu]

I so much love the research-victory option. It has to be implemeted

It would be on of the last technologies to be researched and it would take a long time to comlete. Kind of ascension to another level of existence, all citizens transformed to universal beings without need of the physical world. This is what orions did.
When someone starts to research this technology, all other players would be noted of that. And it would be a cool thing after someone accomplishes this, well the game is won, but there could be an option where other players could keep on playing, and the winner's star systems/colonies would become desolated, so there would be a free area to rush and capture the systems, which is very rare in late game. Another thing would be that the winner's fleets wouldnt disappear, AI just would take over and they would stay in their systems and attack anyone approaching:)
Problem is, that to keep this option viable in smaller games, the level when this technology could be researched, should be made modifiable.

Well this probaply has been discussed before, just wanted to point out how much I love this option. Suits my peaceful-researcher-diplomacy type of gameplay. (I so much hate to conquer everyone as I would rather let them to live in peace)

.Miu

[Ablaze]

That's a very good idea Impaler. If there was a galactic stock market that allowed people to buy and sell goods on, then you could also give people the option of buying and selling "galactic shares." As the game progresses new galactic shares could be put on the market at the current buying price until sometime, say 150 turns in, over 50% of the galactic shares are on the market.

Of course the total number of shares would have to be variable depending on the size of the galaxy. Something like, say, 5 times the number of stars in the galaxy (plus a small number so that very small galaxies don't end after turn 20 or so.)

You could simplify the way a real stock market works a lot by just increasing the value of a share if there are less then, say 2, shares in the pool and decreasing the value if there are more. That way you could buy and sell from the pool without any need for stock brokers.

[Impaler]

Intersting idea Ablaze but I dont fully understand, what are they shares of? The galaxy? Do they pay dividends? Perhaps we are thinking more of Loans then shares.

I was thinking along the lines of each player making a bid for a particular comodity they want to buy or sell, everyone bids secretly and no one knows anyone elses bid untill they are all revealed. The highest bidder gets first dibs and successvly lower biders get what ever is left untill everything is useed up. Selling works in reverse.

The details would need to be worked out and their needs to be some ability to define "victory" under such a system but I am shure we can figure it out. Sugjestions form other economic system would also be helpfull.

[Ablaze]

A market system like that would make the game a whole lot more interesting, but I don't think there is any logical way to make it into a victory condition. I think an economic victory condition should be something you have to specifically go for, not something you get as a byproduct of buying and selling.

In a galactic market system like this they are shares of the galactic market itself. Once you own all the shares of the galactic market you control it, allowing you to cease all trade (everyone's trade) with a particular race (if you don't like them) or offer special deals to another (if you do.) This would win you the game.

These shares of the galactic market could also be used as a form of investment. I think that in any game with a large number of players the tendency of the market would be to go up over time. Buying shares early would be a huge advantage to anyone who might pursue an economic victory later, but then you wouldn't have that money to spend on your empire in the early game when you really need it.

Holding on to a few shares would often be a good idea because the value of those shares would probably keep going up. I.e. you might sell off 20 shares which cost you 80 credits in the early game for 6 mil credits late game and use that money to fund an emergency defense force. As someone who is pursuing an economic victory it might even behoove you to attack people and force them to spend money.

I think it all ties in quite nicely.

[Impaler]

Yes that is sounding interesting. The shares can be though of as the "terratory" or "infatructure" of the economic game. How about this. The number of Units of a comodity you can bid for or offer to the market is limited by how many shares you have. Shares themselves can also be traded. So if a person has enogh shares they can effectivly control the price of a comodity and eventualy enact embaro's on others. Having all the shares wins you the game so their would ultimatly need to be a way to take shares from people who dont want to sell and it would require a lot of money to do so.

This is starting to sound interesting and very strategic, I realy hope we impliment something along these lines. Economics should be as vicious and strategic as any other part of the game.

[Krikkitone]

Shares could be thought of in that Loan sense, in which every empire starts with some shares, and if you go to deep into debt, you automatically sell shares.

The problem is working out the complex buy and Sell. Essentially an Economic Victory is like a diplomatic Victory, persuading everyone to join your side (one way or another, threats, bribery, etc.)

[Impaler]

I think most of our Victory conditions fall under "Amass this % (like 75%) of the total of this thing in the Universe"

This could be , votes, star system, tecnology, market shares, inteligence, or anything else that starts off in the hands of many differnt planyers and is desirable for you to aquire.

The other big catagory is "Be the first to do this thing" such as achive the Trancendence Victory in SMAC or getting the Antarian X's.

I will try to think up some more ideas on Economic victory and how it interacts with our trade system. Fundamentaly I want the Inter-Faction trade to be the "war" that leads to the economic victory condition.

Also I think it would be cool to have an "Espionage Victory". Some kind of very deep infiltration of other races that let you subvert their goverments/enslave them. The subversions are so slow and stealthy that other players dont even know they have lost the game yet. Once you acumulate enough Subversion you can exicute your "Coup De Gra!" Missions (extra hard final wammy) and Take the victory. This victory condition would seem to come "out of noware" to most of the others in the game but it would be very long and involved plans within plans within plans.

[Ablaze]

it would be very long and involved plans within plans within plans.

That doesn’t sound very simple. Any sort of cloak and dagger victory should be anything but secret. It may sound neat to sneak a win right out from under some warlord's nose, but imagine you're that warlord. In multiplayer this would make the game extremely frustrating.

[skdiw]

I think the spying idea is really cool. Especially you get so insidious that you play for them as you gain direct access to their control, mislead the other player by fixing false information on their screen. I thought of this idea too along with the AP system, which makes the game really deep w/o much work since you can spy and attack with ships at the same time, thus making the opponent chose which one to take care of (under the AP system).

So the consensus I'm getting is that we want economic victory and conquest so all other victory are either non-existant or secondary?

[utilae]

The spying victory condition is cool. Maybe the victory may offer clues before you loose. Like:
-'One of your leaders refuses to support you in your millitary efforts'
-'That mega ship is taking longer to build then usual, whats that, they have changed projects