Galactic Doomsday Scenario

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Sui Generis
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Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#1 Post by Sui Generis »

Please be warned in advance, this is a long post. I've divided it up into paragraphs and put in appropriate sounding section headings.

In some 4X games such as Moo2 there are random events that may occur without being caused by any human or AI player and usually have some positive or negative consequence, ranging from the loss of an empire's funds, to loss of population or industrial capacity, or even invasions by hostile alien life forms. This had the advantage of bringing up an unexpected situation and forcing the recipient player to react to something they might not have been able to foresee or prepare for. However these events were generally limited to a single star system and only affected one empire.

What about if there was a type of random event that had the potential to wipe out every life form in the galaxy?
Clearly it would have to be something more subtle than just a per turn probability of every star in the galaxy spontaneously going kaput! It would also need to be either avoidable somehow or possible to reduce the damage your empire would suffer, but in order for the event to be genuinely threatening stopping it would also have to be non-trivial. In order to justify being called a Doomsday scenario it would need to be dangerous at a scale that would threaten not just one player, but all.

A possible candidate for this kind of threat (and the only one I've thought of so far anyway =P) might be an out of control von Neumann probe. It may be more reasonable for it to be on the nanoscale, this to me is just a detail. It might be created by accident, sent as a scout from another galaxy, or perhaps found as a perverse surprise amidst the ruins of an ancient civilisation. In any case, this threat would never happen during the early game and would in fact be most likely to happen in the mid to late portion of the game, if at all. And it could be disabled from ever occurring too

The probe, or machine would head towards the nearest colonised world and attempt to 'seed' it. It would have to be either tiny, stealthy, disguised or otherwise sufficiently hidden to be able to arrive without opposition. On arrival the probe would then begin self-replicating by consuming resources. This is a way that I envisage the probe being dangerous as it would either consume minerals, perhaps take energy from the colonies' local power grid (ie.damage infrastructure), or - on a vastly more interesting and emotional note - feed off of the colonists themselves. This would at first be too small to notice, as it would be a handful of colonists out of a population that might be in billions, but the probe would multiply exponentially, and thus in time it would kill all the colonists.

Unknown threat
However, long before that happens the probe would seek to seed itself on other nearby worlds. Perhaps the probes would be capable of starlane travel independently, or maybe we can just assume they parasitically travel via a host colonist and spread as the unsuspecting host travels to another planet. Probably soon after this has happened the affected empire becomes aware of a problem with the first colony that was initially seeded, but the exact nature of the problem will not yet be apparent, it might just be reported to the player as some unknown disease or virus, though at this stage the casualties would still be fairly modest as there are still relatively few probes.

The nature of the beast
Fast forwards several turns however and the story is entirely different: the probes will have spread to several worlds (hopefully belonging to more than one empire - the probes could be biased to favour a variety of races) and by now a significant number of colonists from the first seed world have died (say a tenth) with many more falling ill on this world and others. At about this stage the owner of the first seed colony will be notified by that empire's scientists of the true nature of the threat. (And if that seems slow, then I suppose I could try to justify that by saying that the probes are small and elusive and/or designed to imitate the effects of other maladies, and if that doesn't seem reasonable just accept it for the sake of argument or else the probes would've been caught already and they wouldn't work as I want them to.)

Shades of grey goo
On learning of this threat, the player that owns the first seed colony has a number of options, one of which would include the option to quarantine the affected colonies, restrict trade (and hence civilian travel) with them and maybe close borders with any affected worlds owned by alien empires. The player may choose whether or not to announce the situation publicly to the other empires or perhaps keep it under wraps and attempt to deal with it on their own. Why might a race hold something like this back from the others? They may fear that an aggressive race might attempt to take advantage of their misfortune and begin a war whilst there concerns are elsewhere. If the player opts to stay quiet, then initiating a quarantine would probably get the attention of the other races, particularly sealing borders with the colony of another empire (with an affected planet).

Telling the truth however won't necessarily be a great deal better. A meeting of the galactic senate (if there is to be one in FO) would probably be convened and you might get some sympathy, but equally the other races will look to save their own skins and will immediately want to seal off their borders, harming trade.

Containment
Meanwhile though, security has been tightened (maybe on the same turn your scientists realise the nature of the threat, a new research option appears, allowing you to develop a basic scanner that can just about detect the probes when scanning a person, becomes available for research, or we could just say the scientists developed it the same turn they discovered the threat.) and so the probes are less able to spread by hitching a ride on a host. So the probes turn to the next stage in their development. When there are enough of them they may arrange themselves into a space flight capable machine able to traverse starlanes and spread the infection further. It is now no longer good enough to just declare a quarantine and have abstracted out border guards handle it; you need to enforce the quarantine with ships from your navy.

These probe-ships will attempt to leave orbit and spread to another system. They are small, fast and difficult to detect, but easy to destroy. Unfortunately as the infection advances down on the colony below, these ships may be produced and launched in greater numbers, plus the other worlds that got infected during the time between the initial infection and the victim player's realisation of the danger, will also begin producing the probe-ships. The player will reinforce his quarantine enforcement navy, but due to their stealthiness there is always a chance that some get through and so the infection spreads.

The bombing question
In order to try and stymie the infection, the player may use their intelligence services to try and gain leads as to where groups of infected are; sometimes the spooks will get it right and you'll be able to move against them, but not with ground forces. You may have to choose between bombarding your own colony from orbit or doing nothing to slow the infection. The population (already a bit miffed with all the deaths) will not respond well to being bombarded, and a full blown attempted exodus is under way by the remaining uninfected colonists, though many will probably be carrying probes, inadvertently doing the job of spreading the infection for them. All of them will need to be fired upon to maintain the quarantine. That and sometimes your spies will get false positives, so if you do drop bombs you'll probably kill plenty of innocent civilians, even with precision bombing, not to mention the infrastructure damage.

United they stand...
By now the infected player will probably be quite worried and may call for help in enforcing the quarantine and preventing the spread. Friends and allies may well send ships, and perhaps the galactic senate (I still forget it's real name, or if FO will have one - perhaps it might only meet in emergencies like this) may vote to send ships from many races to enforce the quarantine. If the races can throw aside their petty rivalries and unite in mutual support (and if the infection spreads sufficiently far, as I hope it would) then they will be much more successful at containing the spread, but probably not entirely as the probeships are deliberately quick and stealthy and by this point may even develop some means of attacking your ships themselves by deploying the probes against the crew, and perhaps (with sufficient technobabble justification) turning the ship from control of a regular empire to that of the probes. (Perhaps the probes can manipulate the minds of the infected?)

None so helpless as those who help only themselves...
However and this is an important idea, some empires may opt not to help you. They may judge that since there are several worlds (inhabited by an enemy empire) that they could allow the probes to weaken their rivals before fighting back against the probe. Unfortunately, by letting the probes gain access to more worlds their long-term growth rate will become dangerously high. Such an action may sound callous (and very short-sighted) but it certainly makes the game more interesting.

As for the poor victim empire that owned the original seed world, they could be able to capture one of the probes (perhaps for study, to try and find a counter-measure) or perhaps instead to use as a weapon against a rival empire. This action would become even more tempting if the victim feared they were deliberately being left to suffer.

So (assuming this event can be made to be 'winnable') I think it would be good to offer some means of preventing the initial victim from being damaged too much. Perhaps after a good while into the infection, scientists could develop a kind of vaccine that causes infected individuals to merely enter a coma instead of being killed by the reproducing probes. This would effectively set a lower floor on the population loss on each planet, based on how many colonists can be vaccinated. Perhaps instead of the initial seed empire getting this tech one of the other empires may get it instead. They could then give the vaccine tech for free, cynically charge a huge price for it or even withhold it and look the other way. In any case, once (if?) the probes were finally defeated these comatose colonists could presumably be revived, though there still would've been a significant amount of damage done to the empire by the deaths of those who could not be vaccinated.

Looking into the end of existence?
All that's left is how this will end. How can the probes be defeated? I'm going to be lazy and propose a deus ex machina. (Feel free to suggest something better!)
Eventually, it may become possible to research some galaxy-wide disruptor technology - a galactic wonder no doubt - that simultaneously shuts down and destroys all probes, with any individual/ships afflicted by them able to return to their normal state, comatose victims can be revived, etc. (And yes I know that this is stealing liberally from pop sci-fi). Or maybe the original creators programmed the probes to shut down to a special "off" signal. Maybe these solutions require certain special pre-requisite techs in combination and these pre-requisite techs are distributed amongst some of the different races, again placing a dilemma on whether the empire should be co-operative or secretive.

A second possible solution might involve obtaining special Orion technology to do the same thing. It might require a research effort at several artefacts worlds (or on Orion itself) which would then allow the galaxy-saving wonder, or perhaps there is such a device already in existence that could be utilised, or needs to be repaired with parts from other artefact worlds. Plenty more opportunities for unscrupulous races who think they may gain more than they lose by letting the infection go on a bit longer. As you can probably guess, I like such forms of intrigue, though I expect it's going to be extremely difficult to develop an AI that will play this scenario out smartly.

And if the races fail to use the deus ex machina they will eventually succumb to the power of the exponential growth curve, all remaining comatose life-forms will die as there are no longer any free-willed beings there to support them, all life in the galaxy will be wiped out and the probes, (most likely satisfied that their scouting mission is complete can go about on their way to the next galaxy and leave nothing but dust and a few more planets with ruins behind in this galaxy. This would count as the player losing the game. ;)

Your opinions please
So what do you think? A bit game-unbalancing perhaps? Yep, I'd be inclined to agree. It will be difficult to incorporate anything like this into FreeOrion. I know I've not really provided much in the way of specifics and all of this may just have to remain a semi-dramatic story for a long-time. It's almost certainly not going to be implemented anyway, too many people would probably object to how this event wrenches the game into something completely divorced from what they expected.

But it's this game-changing nature that I think is it's strength. Even the most aggressive and angry races will have a serious stake in ensuring the galaxy is not consumed by grey goo (and if it's going to be too much bother to make an AI smart enough to realise this in general, fudge it! Write an exceptional special case script set). Bitter wars would pause under cease-fires, long-standing rivalries would have to be (grudgingly) put aside and totally independent alien empires would be likely to have to co-operate, but there is plenty of opportunity for backstabbing, shafting, cynical profiteering and even outright condemnation to near genocide.

It may seem to be too harsh on the empire whose world gets initially infected, for a random event; indeed the first world is likely to suffer huge casualties and loss of infrastructure and if the probe infection runs too far before it is destroyed, large swathes of the galaxy will be set back by years in development. However I think that with sufficient game-testing and patience, this could be made to be somewhat balanced. Not equal by any means, but then random events rarely are anyway, but sufficiently near. By letting the infected get better containment controls sooner and giving them the chance to get the vaccine, the damage they suffer can be reduced. Infected worlds won't lose all their population so long as you spend enough on getting that vaccine out, and if things really get bad you can play beggar thy neighbour and just help the probes on their way to your unhelpful rivals.

If you managed to read through all of this then thanks for your patience. Your thoughts would be appreciated

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General_Zaber
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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#2 Post by General_Zaber »

Well personally I like the idea of a crisis occuring that causes all the races of the Galaxy to work together against a common threat. The Grey Goo scenario is a pretty good one, surely if its implemented than than it would obviously be a little less linear (sorry but your proposal looks a bit like a script). Other than that the concept works.

I also imagine certain things would cause the races of the galxay to convene in a council, Multi-Government Bodies have been discussed previoulsy and I imagine a Galactic Doomsday Scenario would be an opportunity to create one. Perhaps the first player to become aware of a GDdS developing would have the option of beaming out a request for all the leaders of the Galaxy to assemble at an important neutral site and discuss the creation of a MGB (whether it lasts after the GDdS is resolved is a whole 'nother story :D )

Of course if this first empire keeps the situation quiet (either to protect themselves or to figure out a way of unleashing the GDdS on their enemies :twisted: ) then anyone who finds out through spies or coincidence would be able to request a council themselves, of course in this case members of the MGB would be able to condemn the empire that kept the crisis under wraps. By the way, I forgot to mention before that other empires could still refuse the invitation to attend the convention.

Just to wrap up, another Galactic Dooms-day Scenario could be a massed invasion by one of the Precursor Races or another random intergalactic Empire, there's bound to be others after-all.
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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#3 Post by Skaro »

It would also spice up the scenario of some species were actually immune to the seeders or actually had technology to effectively clean them up on a planetary scale.

Such a species would be in a pretty powerfull position and could demand pretty much anything to provide help (think technology, trade agreements and maybe even planets). Though it might a problem for them if the other ganged up on them.
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eleazar
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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#4 Post by eleazar »

Off the cuff, i'd say this sounds like it could be an interesting campaign, but it sounds too powerfully game-unbalancing (as admitted) to be a normal part of a standard game. The optimal strategy is likely to let the grey goo destroy/cripple as many other empires as possible before cooperating on the cure soon enough to save yourself.

Of course it would be possible to devise a milder version, but then it really wouldn't be a doomsday scenario any more.

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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#5 Post by Tortanick »

Personally the Doomsday scenario that always interested me was the heat death of the universe ever since it came up in the back-story for the Doctor Who episode Utopia. The one paragraph version:

There aren't many stars left, and those ones are frequently dieing, the empires goal is to research zero point energy and use it to build a place to live that outlasts the universe itself. Unfortunately the imminent doom of everything and the fact that at most only a tiny minority can be saved means that society breaks down, while the player may start ruling a galactic alliance of everyone (its the end of the universe, they've had enough time to get things right) pretty soon they'll have to contend with: riots, doomsday cults, pirates, pleasure cults (like the ones that created Slaanesh) and some races who paniced and decided they're better off on there own and of course time is running out.

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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#6 Post by IConrad »

There's another solution to the heat-death problem.

This isn't a science-fiction solution, either.

A few backgrounding points:
  • Hawking's arrow of entropy is an arbitrary constant.
  • M-Theory dictates that there are a wide number of membranes, each of which constitute a unique universe.
  • M-Theory is validated through its successful ability to predict "through" the Big Bang.
  • M-Theory also is validated through the ability to explain the persistence of the relatively weak force, Gravity. It does so by explaining it as "bleeding through" from another membrane. This dictates that membranes have varying physical laws -- i.e.; that their constants are inconsistent from one universe to another.
  • There being an infinite number of membranes, the probability approaches unity that there is at least one universe whose arrow of entropy is inverse or parallel to our own, and protons are unstable.
  • The validation of gravity indicates that energy can persist through membranes.
Therefore, it is scientifically possible that a technology could be developed that "taps" a universe where Maxwell's Demon opens the door the other direction.

This could be used as a permanent method of solar rejuvenation: you place a shielded object within the core of a star, siphon off the helium and 'pump' it into the inverted universe, allow it to break down into sub-proton levels, siphon out that mass as raw hydrogen and then inject its mass directly back into the star. The curious thing is, both universes effectively acquire free energy: this is because the "high-energy state" would exist in the form of disarray in the inverted universe, but as order in ours.

This is actually much more valid scientifically speaking than is the idea of zero-point energy. (But hey; if it gets the engineer from Firefly back on the air and getting the possibility of having things 'twixt her nethers... it's all good!)

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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#7 Post by marhawkman »

Tortanick wrote:Personally the Doomsday scenario that always interested me was the heat death of the universe ever since it came up in the back-story for the Doctor Who episode Utopia. The one paragraph version:

There aren't many stars left, and those ones are frequently dieing, the empires goal is to research zero point energy and use it to build a place to live that outlasts the universe itself. Unfortunately the imminent doom of everything and the fact that at most only a tiny minority can be saved means that society breaks down, while the player may start ruling a galactic alliance of everyone (its the end of the universe, they've had enough time to get things right) pretty soon they'll have to contend with: riots, doomsday cults, pirates, pleasure cults (like the ones that created Slaanesh) and some races who paniced and decided they're better off on there own and of course time is running out.
I love this one! Of course part of the theory is to survive the "Big Crunch" and thus be the first living things in the next universe. Bwahaha1!!! Actually it's kinda interesting how many things in Dr. Who were said to be predate the current universe.
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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#8 Post by IConrad »

Actually it's kinda interesting how many things in Dr. Who were said to be predate the current universe.
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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#9 Post by Sui Generis »

Thanks to everyone for your responses, I'm glad to see there is some interest in the idea.
eleazar wrote: Off the cuff, i'd say this sounds like it could be an interesting campaign, but it sounds too powerfully game-unbalancing (as admitted) to be a normal part of a standard game.
Yes, I think that seeing this scenario as being very game unbalancing seems is certainly amongst the first things that come to mind when considering it. So on the principle that first impressions aren't forced to be true, why not examine it and see how valid this assumption is?

The owner of the first colony to fall victim seems likely to suffer a good deal from the probes event. This tendency could be ameliorated somewhat if we want, just set the event to favour spawning the probes on a world that borders several other empires. That way there becomes a greater chance of passing the probes on to another player early - thus the initial victim has a greater chance of passing on the problem before they begin to undergo losses sufficient to decisively cost them the game.

The next mechanism for preventing this random event effectively killing off a player just by chance is the concept of the vaccine. This acts as a damage limiter to population lost to the probes - it doesn't stop the probes reproducing exponentially and growing into a threat for other empires, but makes the population lost more easy to recover should the disaster be averted. That's why I originally stated that it might appear in the research tree of the victim empire first. They should have better opportunities to develop one, to help mitigate their higher expected casualties. If you do sufficiently well at vaccinating your colonies, you might lose the initially seeded one, or perhaps a significant number of colonists, probably with another world or two aswell. But the rest of your empire may be able to recover relatively unscathed, if and only if the doomsday event is survived.

There remains the problem of how to permit the affected empires to counter the unaffected, who will probably want to let the probes do their work and weaken their rivals. This is where the possibility of maliciously spreading the probes comes in. Refuse to help too much and if the affected players are really starting to go under, they will have little incentive not to gratuitously share the suffering. I'm not sure about the exact way in which the probes could be deliberately passed on. Maybe through fleet actions being able to bomb a world from a rival empire, perhaps through espionage. In any case, it should become easier for the player to spread the probes, the more he succumbs to it. Remember that I stated the probes as having a spacebourne vector. These should help the player if the player tries to spread the probes and hinder him if he opposes them.

Finally, letting the probes inflict the maximum damage on all other empires whilst trying to stay clear of the probes yourself would be an extremely dangerous and risky strategy of brinksmanship. Remember that the probes grow exponentially, so if only one species remains uninfected and the probes are widespread, there will be so many spacebourne variants of the probes trying to enter your space and infect your colonies, that you will have a very difficult job indeed holding them off for long enough. To further discourage the scenario ending like this, I propose that we make the cure to the probes much easier to research/build/get hold of and use when there are more empires still in the game. It should still be possible with one, but significantly harder. This gives two countervailing incentives for the uninfected players:
1) Allow the probes to weaken you rivals as much as possible at the risk of decreasing your own chance of survival
2) Eliminate the probes sooner rather than later, and simply forego the possible advantages of stealing tech, or territory from foreign empires.
eleazar wrote:The optimal strategy is likely to let the grey goo destroy/cripple as many other empires as possible before cooperating on the cure soon enough to save yourself.
Yes, that sounds about right. Perhaps I am wrongly inferring an opinion you didn't state here, but as far as having an idea of what the optimal strategy will be, I don't see this as a bad thing.

Consider the main game, a generally sensible strategy (if not necessarily the optimal one) will be to expand your empire by colonising as many planets as possible, colonising the 'best' ones first and denying territory to your opponents. Knowing that this may be a good strategy to follow does not result in the player automatically winning the game, as (well of course there is more to FO than colonisation) it is not a turn-left, go forward specific set of actions. It can't be because the galaxy will be randomised, with planets placed randomly and the player must adapt to changing circumstances, such as how close a rival is to colonising a favourable planet, etc.

The scenario I propose will also have such unknowns as where the probes will first land (which affects how easily transmissible to your empire it will be) how powerful the other empires are (which affects how much you want to let the probes hurt them) and the empires own behaviour based on co-operation or selfishness.

In each particular game, these factors will be different and the scenario will play out differently, with different challenges, even if the player is each time aspiring towards the same objective.
Tortanick wrote:Personally the Doomsday scenario that always interested me was the heat death of the universe ever since it came up in the back-story for the Doctor Who episode Utopia. The one paragraph version:
Yes I definitely could have made my original post a lot more concise!
Tortanick wrote:Unfortunately the imminent doom of everything and the fact that at most only a tiny minority can be saved means that society breaks down, while the player may start ruling a galactic alliance of everyone (its the end of the universe, they've had enough time to get things right) pretty soon they'll have to contend with: riots, doomsday cults, pirates, pleasure cults (like the ones that created Slaanesh) and some races who paniced and decided they're better off on there own and of course time is running out.
I like this scenario - but obviously it wouldn't make sense to have it as an in-game scenario. Perhaps instead it might be an extension to the game after winning the normal game; an optional double-or-quits campaign to increase the victory points of the winning player. By victory points I'm referring to some hypothetical points system to assess how successful the winning player has been.

The objective of the scenario (besides 'surviving' the heat-death of course) would be to save as many citizens as possible. There also would be some reward for minimising the riots, and perhaps reconquering separatists, as this would help prevent the loss of lives and thus allow more to be saved.

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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#10 Post by General_Zaber »

A little off topic but I should mention that I said before somewhere else that if a player is killed off (or a new player attempting to join the game*) they should be able to (re)enter the game either as the leader of a faction created through revolution (if there are any) or a Natives race uplifted (naturally or unnaturally) to full empire status.

Alternatively if there is no opportunity, a player could volunteer to grant independence to one of their systems/worlds/fleets^.

This way a player killed off by a GDdS or by any other means would be able to get a second shot.

*This would require a vote by the current players with minimum percentage of players voting yes (percentage set at start of game) required to let the newcomer in.

^This fleet would automatically be joined by a Colony Ship if it didn't already have one.
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Tortanick
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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#11 Post by Tortanick »

IConrad wrote:There's another solution to the heat-death problem.
Mere technicalities, interesting reading though :) ATM I'm sticking with zero point energy because that's in the tech tree.
marhawkman wrote:I love this one! Of course part of the theory is to survive the "Big Crunch" and thus be the first living things in the next universe. Bwahaha1!!! Actually it's kinda interesting how many things in Dr. Who were said to be predate the current universe.

Thank you :) I'm sure some races would have a lot of fun being the first ones, others would probably transcend and maybe stay for some big-bang sightseeing.
Sui Generis wrote: I like this scenario - but obviously it wouldn't make sense to have it as an in-game scenario. Perhaps instead it might be an extension to the game after winning the normal game; an optional double-or-quits campaign to increase the victory points of the winning player.
I was actually thinking of having it as the ending to the campaign mode, your right that it dosn't make sense in a multiplayer game.
Sui Generis wrote:The objective of the scenario (besides 'surviving' the heat-death of course) would be to save as many citizens as possible.
Maybe on easy :p Keeping as many species as possible from extinction should be hard enough, you wont have time to try for numbers.
Sui Generis wrote:There also would be some reward for minimising the riots, and perhaps reconquering separatists, as this would help prevent the loss of lives and thus allow more to be saved.
[/quote]
Unnecessary, stopping riots provides you with more workers to build your survival plan, having domestic stabilility as an actual goal will skew a players priorities, its a little cynical but with Armageddon looming who cares if people are obeying the law (well there's Rorschach) all that matters is can you survive.

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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#12 Post by marhawkman »

I feel that for the grey goo scenario there should a way to use the "cure" to "purify" planets thus temporarily reclaiming them from the blight, without killing off whatever population remains.
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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#13 Post by Rufus_iii »

I think that it's a great idea and I would love to be involved in a game where I have to counter such a random, unexpected and catastrophic event but ... I'd get pretty agitated if I played a brilliant game, exploited all of the strategic elements and my tactics had worked like a dream ... maybe I can finally, you know, WIN!!!

But what happens? Something that's not in any rulebook. Has my computer *** itself again?

How do you get people to expect the unexpected?

OK, we could put examples of possible scenarios in an instruction manual. Now players know that such things exist and can, in a general sense, prepare for them (perhaps some players would see them as too hard to master and give up). The events are now not unexpected. Since the events are random, how will the players feel when, after much research and preparation, they don't occur? If the same type of event occurs in several games won't it become an annoying distraction?

At best, they (catastrophic scenarios) would need to be delicately promoted.. at worst, they could become a no-win proposition for the game.

[I can't help thinking of natural disasters. If one occurs without warning the authorities are blamed for not being prepared. If two or three occur, the area gets a bad reputation and people move away in droves.]

I guess my position on these types of scenarios is that they do not belong in the basic form of the game but FO team should plan the architecture for their inclusion in an advanced version (an expansion pack). When I become an experienced FO player, I'd love to test myself in a catastrophic scenarios once (or twice) but not too often and definitely not while I'm mastering the basics.

OOPS - I seem to be too critical/practical for a brainstorming thread so in order to justify my post, I'm going to suggest a safety valve to recover from a catastophic scenario being too catastrophic.

1 AI makes a decision that the game is becoming unplayable.
2 All players find an artifact with hints of a time warp
3 Applying research to the artifact gives three options of applying the time warp
a)before the threat appears, so that it never happens,
b)in the early stage of the threat so that they can adopt different strategies or
c)as a) but several turns earlier when the strategic balance of the game is different
4 Players "vote" for an option (or to do nothing) and the next turn begins at the appropriate time. The artifact, of course, disappears as it has yet to be found.

OK, it's merely a glorified way of the players restarting a saved game but it has the advantage of maintaining the storyline.

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Sui Generis
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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#14 Post by Sui Generis »

marhawkman wrote:I feel that for the grey goo scenario there should a way to use the "cure" to "purify" planets thus temporarily reclaiming them from the blight, without killing off whatever population remains.
If there is, it would have to be sufficiently difficult and perhaps inefficient that you couldn't just push back the probes by maxing your vaccine production. Otherwise it would take too much sting out of the probes and turn the doomsday scenario into a mere annoyance.

The whole point of this scenario is that the probes are so dangerous that they pose a threat to all (and will do if unscrupulous empires attempt to exploit the scenario for their own ends, as I hope.)
Rufus_iii wrote:...we could put examples of possible scenarios in an instruction manual. Now players know that such things exist and can, in a general sense, prepare for them (perhaps some players would see them as too hard to master and give up).
I think the scenario ought to be pretty simple to prepare for as the basic survival strategy is dead simple: get races to co-operate first on containing the probes, if you're the infected empire, innoculate your colonists asap so that you will have more left once the event ends, provide ships to help enforce the quarantine once the space-bourne variant emerges (hopefully from all races in the galaxy) and co-operate on the deus ex machina wonder/project to end the game, as soon as it becomes available.

If of course you happen to see an opportunity in the situation and attempt to take advantage by not working to slow the probes, or even helping them on their way (because you believe you will be damaged less than your rivals, or because you are infected and have nothing to lose) then in that case, you are on your own. But luckily all the means of influencing the scenario are based on pre-existing game concepts such as building (vaccines, ships etc) war/space combat, tech development (to develop the scanner that detects probes in the infected and the vaccine that stops probe reproduction from killing the host.) and espionage (to spread the probes and steal tech). But the basic means of ending the probe infection remain the same (if a bigger, much harder task than before).

All of this is why I think the doomsday scenario would really make a very good addition to the standard game. It largely uses the normal gameplay mechanics and concepts, but by changing the circumstances and incentives it very rapidly shifts the focus and objective of the game. It temporarily ups the stakes and promises a very intense point in the game.
Rufus_iii wrote:How do you get people to expect the unexpected?
Simple. Even if the player knows that such an event is possible and is already aware of what it's nature and scope will likely be, that still won't tell them the timing or location that the probes will spawn at. They may even not spawn at all. Thus the player will have a good idea of what to do in the event as I said above, but will always have to adapt their plans to the different circumstances they will face. e.g. Whether it's a distant empire that is first hit, a nearby neighbour from which the probes may spread to you more quickly, a useful ally that you would rather stay powerful, an enemy that you would rather see weakened, or even your own empire.
Rufus_iii wrote:Since the events are random, how will the players feel when, after much research and preparation, they don't occur? If the same type of event occurs in several games won't it become an annoying distraction?
I'd expect that something like this could be a selectable precondition of the game the player starts, just like how galaxy age and starlane frequency are selected before a player starts a new game.

If you've just played several games with probes coming in each time, maybe lost a few because of them, and you genuinely don't want to have to hear the words "probes" and "exponential" again then just turn the doomsday scenario off.

If you've not encountered them yet or haven't for awhile then maybe there could be an option to make it very likely, or certain that there will be a doomsday event in this game. Heck, if we really wanted to we could even have an option to spawn a probe infection at a colony there and then, from the in-game options menu. If the player was bored of the main game and fancied making it a bit more lively, then he could do so, kind of like how you could spawn disasters in sim city.

And if all this were not enough, I'd have expected that FO will be deep and interesting enough to be a good distraction from worrying about doomsday scenarios. Most likely the player would be so wrapped up in playing the game that the emergence of a doomsday scenario would be quite a surprise. :)
Rufus_iii wrote:When I become an experienced FO player, I'd love to test myself in a catastrophic scenarios once (or twice) but not too often and definitely not while I'm mastering the basics.
That sounds fair enough. If anything like this is ever included then it probably ought to be switched off by default, or at least special newbie help might be given the first time that a player has to play through it. Perhaps a link to the in-game help if there is to be any?

Don't forget though, that playing the doomsday scenario mostly revolves around using existing FO concepts and strategies, but turning them on their head. The various diplomacy, research, espionage and ship combat is something that you will be likely to have a good understanding of by the time the scenario happens anyway.
Rufus_iii wrote:OOPS - I seem to be too critical/practical for a brainstorming thread so in order to justify my post
That's okay! Please feel free to criticise or point out any problems or flaws you see in my idea - it will only help to improve it. It may even help make it sufficiently workable that we can envision it being implemented into the game for real; perhaps even successfully too.
Rufus_iii wrote:[Deus ex machina type effect to make the scenario replayable/removable]
Well currently I have a deus ex machina as the solution to the probes. You basically build a project or wonder (that is easier when you haven't been selfish and let the probes get everyone else) which makes them vanish and just leave. Yeah, that's it.

I quite like your idea that the game should have some way of making the scenario restartable or even removable if the player wishes. Perhaps instead of making some slightly weak and artificial explanation that there is a time-warp, it should just be presented to the player as an option to go back to a special autosave made just before the initial infection event took place. There would also be an option to remove the spawning event, in case the player did not enjoy it. That way, by avoiding the pretension that it is part of the storyline you don't have to worry about keeping it. We certainly don't worry about storyline when people save or load or quit games after all.

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Krikkitone
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Re: Galactic Doomsday Scenario

#15 Post by Krikkitone »

For a Deus ex machina, it is simple enough to say you found a 'vaccine' that is incredibly cheap and easy ie no cost and 100% effective... ie everyone that has that tech is totally unaffected by the probes and produces no probes from their colonies. (so get the tech share it and wala probes gone).

Otherwise players are intelligent enough to use the autosaves (which should be on by default, and the doomsday off by default)

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