One species per planet.

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Ran Taro
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#46 Post by Ran Taro » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:06 am

Actually, this is exactly the kind of complexity that i think needs to be avoided,
To be honest I don't see what the complexity is. It's fairly simple. 1 race per planet = good. 2+ races per planet = the suck. You don't really have to deal with much complexity as a player, because you are gonna keep your planets as one race. But you're not forced to obey a seemingly arbitary hard rule. And if there's a few stray aliens here and there, it doesn't have much effect, so it can be beneath your notice.

Thus the algorithm determining production on multi race worlds is largely irrelevant, and can be quite simple. For example, perhaps races after the most populous simply produce nothing. That makes your meters very simple. Add a simple mechanism to migrate them (which is probably the harder bit), and it's done.

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utilae
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#47 Post by utilae » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:43 pm

Ran Taro wrote:
Actually, this is exactly the kind of complexity that i think needs to be avoided,
To be honest I don't see what the complexity is. It's fairly simple. 1 race per planet = good. 2+ races per planet = the suck. You don't really have to deal with much complexity as a player, because you are gonna keep your planets as one race. But you're not forced to obey a seemingly arbitary hard rule. And if there's a few stray aliens here and there, it doesn't have much effect, so it can be beneath your notice.

Thus the algorithm determining production on multi race worlds is largely irrelevant, and can be quite simple. For example, perhaps races after the most populous simply produce nothing. That makes your meters very simple. Add a simple mechanism to migrate them (which is probably the harder bit), and it's done.
The way you talk, these other races on the planet that are not dominant, do nothing. So what is the point of having multiple races per planet any way. I think multiple races on a planet is unnecesary and doesn't add any fun at all. It seems to be a feature that is only there to be realistic, yet will not provide any value for the player.

Ran Taro
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#48 Post by Ran Taro » Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:29 am

utilae wrote: The way you talk, these other races on the planet that are not dominant, do nothing. So what is the point of having multiple races per planet any way. I think multiple races on a planet is unnecesary and doesn't add any fun at all. It seems to be a feature that is only there to be realistic, yet will not provide any value for the player.
The point isn't really to allow more than one race per planet generally, it's to allow you to change what race is on what planet in an expediant manner. So you don't end up stuck with races on a planets they are not well suited for, which could be quite frustrating to a player.

Whether that frustration is preferable to the micromanagement / coding involved in swapping them around, I don't know. It's probably a question worth considering though.

[edited for syntax]

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Sheldar
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One Empire = One Race

#49 Post by Sheldar » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:14 pm

If we are leaving reality out then the "One Planet -> One Race" can be expanded to "One Empire -> One Race". After all you chose a race to play in the start for a reason. This is especially true if the gameplay has events that affect your racial advantages (proposed victory conditions.) However if you play "One Empire -> One Race" then this complexity is lessened.

One way this could be coded is to provide an indicator for each planet that is captured. That indicator would be "population that is unhappy/rebellious." The idea would be somewhat similar to CivIII. As you keep military units or happiness high on this planet the population would switch to being "happy productive" members of your empire (same advantages as your race.) Over time the entire planet would support you.

Programming complexity:
- takes more effort than simply deleting all the population like in MOO1.
- Far simpler than multirace calculations.

Further complexity if desired:
- Could keep track of the last person owning planet and if they take it over again then the people who were "unhappy/rebellious" for the "invader" will be "happy productive" for you again (still have to "convert" the invaders and your people who were "converted" by the invader.)
- It would be suggested to only let the "one previous owner" to do this and if player A owned the planet and then player B took it and then player C took it. If player A took it again then all the people are "unhappy/rebellious". (To keep complexity down. Some algorithm could be developed to handle cases where a planet changes quickly from A->B->C->A but that might be too much.)

This whole proposal is dependent on not needing to be "realistic" in all facets. Being "realistic" is one of the tenants for getting 'banned' so I tried to stay reasonable.

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Kharagh
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#50 Post by Kharagh » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:12 am

I am firmly against your "One Empire -> One Race" approach. Just because "realism arguments" are not looked upon fondly in this forum does not mean we should strive to be unrealistic. It merely means that gameplay and KISS often take precedence over realism.
What you propose would IMHO take a lot of fun out of the game. I like to have differrent races in Moo2 and I think it is a feature, that should be integrated into freeorion. It offers much more variety in gameplay and it adds too the feeling of leading a grand star empire if there are differrent races that do your bidding.

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Sheldar
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#51 Post by Sheldar » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:37 pm

Maybe not going all the way to "One Empire -> One Race" but the concepts surrounding the "invaders being resisted" could still be implemented.

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Krikkitone
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#52 Post by Krikkitone » Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:47 am

Well assunming we stick with the idea of One 'Target' Species for the planet (chosen by the player)

Then there are two ways to get there

1. Depopulate-repopulate cycle
+[fits in with existing models, and preserves all the simplicity of one planet=one species]
-[because it uses existing models may have a large 'gap' in production and time]

2. Gradual Replacement
+[allows a continuous, although probably costly replacement process]
-[complexity, primarily on the programming side]

I personally favor #2, just because the continuity seems like it would feel better (and more 'humane' if you wanted your empire to feel that way). But #1 Could work as well (and there would be no problem of switching)


As for a 'Harvester/Vampire species'... That would beter be modeled by allowing some ability for planets of Other species to produce Migrating Population units of thier species [perhaps a Building of some type, where new 'hosts/cattle' are led to be 'taken over/slaughtered']

As for 'resistance' that seems like another model.

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eleazar
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#53 Post by eleazar » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:14 am

snakechia wrote:but what if you have 10 planets with two races on each planet. Each planet has 50% klackon 50% psilon.

What happens if you set each planet to "I want klackons here". Then nothing would move? Then you're stuck with two populations on each planet which is what we were trying to avoid in the first place...
It could be done simply. The exact details depend on how migration is handled. I'd guess it will be mostly automatic.

Scenario: The Klackon species has recently become part of your empire. You have a planet currently occupied by the Vux, that however is ideally suited to the Klackon. On the planet window there'd be an option. "Evacuate Planet" If you clicked it, you'ld get options to turn it over to any of your member species, to raze it to the ground, or hand it off to another player(?). You select "Turn over to Klackons".
But this will take a few turns (depending on the population) Meanwhile the planet produces nothing. The production icons are replaced by a progress indicator, that shows how many turns till the Vux have moved out. Vux population units leave and join other Vux planets. Simultaniously Klackons leave their least favored worlds and come over. The infrastruction meter is gradually set back as well (to 50% or so of it's former level) When the Vux are all gone, The Klackons celebrate, and the planet's production resumes.

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