One species per planet.

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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MikkoM
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#16 Post by MikkoM » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:14 pm

This seems unneccesary to me. If you don't want the people why not exterminate them before you take over? and setting a policy towards slavery or genocide would seem like it would inevitably lead towards massive revolts...... A setting about treating captured populations as slaves might not be a bad idea though...
But have you considered the fact that massive planetary bombing destroys the infrastructure and organic life from the planet and so doing leaves the planet in some sort of desert state. Of course you could use chemical or biological weapons, but they could hurt the population growth of your people ones you have occupied the planet.

Where as you could use only limited amount of bombardment and then sent your ground troops in and take the planet and so doing leave much of the infrastructure intact. And then with some species who don`t share the same moral values than us humans you could purify the planet from "second class races". And even with human values you could use propaganda to hide the genocide.

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marhawkman
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#17 Post by marhawkman » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:07 pm

MikkoM wrote:
This seems unneccesary to me. If you don't want the people why not exterminate them before you take over? and setting a policy towards slavery or genocide would seem like it would inevitably lead towards massive revolts...... A setting about treating captured populations as slaves might not be a bad idea though...
But have you considered the fact that massive planetary bombing destroys the infrastructure and organic life from the planet and so doing leaves the planet in some sort of desert state. Of course you could use chemical or biological weapons, but they could hurt the population growth of your people ones you have occupied the planet.

Where as you could use only limited amount of bombardment and then sent your ground troops in and take the planet and so doing leave much of the infrastructure intact. And then with some species who don`t share the same moral values than us humans you could purify the planet from "second class races". And even with human values you could use propaganda to hide the genocide.
Not gonna happen. Bombing to change planet types isn't gonna work. The idea is interesting but it just doesn't seem like a good idea from a gameplay standpoint.
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Krikkitone
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#18 Post by Krikkitone » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:02 pm

Well a way I could see it working:

All planets are 'Designated' for a species.. by default it is the species present, however it may be changed to any species not subject to Genocide (if you decide to Genocide a species, all planets Designated for that species spontaneously change Designation to your 'native' species)

A species may migrate to a planet IF
1. The planet is Designated for that species
And
2. The planet does not have 2 OTHER species present
And
3. the planet is below its maximum population for that species

A species migrates OFF a planet (at a rate faster than natural growth) if the planet is Designated for another species. How much faster depends on your government... freer governments are slower but have less unhappiness from the migrating species

"Transitional" planets would be those with 2 species on them and they would be governed by a few simple rules

1. the bonus is equal to the Base bonus for each species*% of the population of that species

2. One of the species present is Designated the 'Majority' species... it is the race with the highest 'score' Score=200 if the planet is Designated for the species+that species % of the population-200 species is subject to Genocide+0.5 if the species has comes first in the computers 'list' of species.

3. The 'Majority' species migrates off the planet at a slower rate


Now if Migration is permitted Between empires, then you could have the Mixed Psilon/Klackon empire with all worlds designated as Klackon... the Psilons would just go to a neighboring empire. (also you could have a pure Psilon empire, and designate all/most of your worlds for Klackons... and just let them come in from a neighboring empire..assuming there was a neighbor with Klackons)

If there is no place for a migrating species to go it should raise unhappiness in that species... the same way Genocide would.


So if you had a mixed 50-50 Psilon-Klackon world and Designated it for Humans,
Assuming the list of species was alphabetical, Klackons would be the 'majority' and so they would migrate slower than the Psilons... Eventually, the Psilons would be all gone and there would be some Klackons left.
At that time, Humans would begin arriving and Klackons would begin leaving at the normal rate.

Now if it was a 70-30 Psilon-Klackon world, or a 30-70 Psilon-Klackon world (with Klackons but not Psilons subject to Genocide in this empire). Then the Psilons would leave more slowly, until all the Klackons were gone.
At that time, Humans would begin arriving and Psilons would begin leaving at the normal rate.

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marhawkman
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#19 Post by marhawkman » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:09 pm

I don't like that idea.... It just seems far to "micro". Besides why would you want to kill off your own people? Image

I more favor an approach like this:

Code: Select all

race      |number on planet
Kurkonians| 12
Andorians | 8
Aubrei    | 4
Gterrat   | 3
I also like the idea of loading colonists into colony ships and having the colony start with whatever races were loaded.[/code]
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Geoff the Medio
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#20 Post by Geoff the Medio » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:02 am

Krikkitone wrote:1. the bonus is equal to the Base bonus for each species*% of the population of that species
Again, this is the exact kind of thing that having a one species per planet rule was trying to avoid.
Geoff the Medio wrote:...the problem with [having multiple races per planet] wasn't just micro, it was also the difficulty easily explaining any effects that population has on production or whatever in terms like (56% race A) * (+5) + (33% race B) * (-0.5) = (+2.635) bonus, or various other fractions of bonuses in complicated arrangements that could then occur. With one race, it's just (+5), which is easy and simple to explain and understand.
An Aquitaine post on the subject:
http://freeorion.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13657#13657

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utilae
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#21 Post by utilae » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:19 am

Well if we have an empire wide build queue then we don't need to worry about per planet production, just empire production.

Each race would have the following:
Base Production - when you create your race
Other Production - any other bonuses, eg tech or planet special
Overall Production - grand total (what user sees)

Now we just go:
Klackons: 500 klackons x 10 overall production = 5000
Psilon: 100 psilons x 5 overal production = 500
=5,500 production for the build queue.


I do think that having more than one race per planet is too much micro and would bring little benefit for the player. The only reason I can see for it is realism, which isn't a reason.

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Geoff the Medio
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#22 Post by Geoff the Medio » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:23 am

utilae wrote:Well if we have an empire wide build queue then we don't need to worry about per planet production, just empire production.
Individual planets still produce all RP, trade, minerals, industry and food, and the player decides which of these each planet is focused on producing, so there needs to be some relatively simple way to explain why a planet is produces the amount of each resource that it is, and how buildings or social choices or what race is on the planet affect these things.

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marhawkman
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#23 Post by marhawkman » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:32 am

Hmm... I suppose it does make some sense to have segregated populations. and of course it's easy to code. Maybe add it later? like 1.5?
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Krikkitone
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#24 Post by Krikkitone » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:08 pm

marhawkman wrote:I don't like that idea.... It just seems far to "micro". Besides why would you want to kill off your own people? Image

I more favor an approach like this:

Code: Select all

race      |number on planet
Kurkonians| 12
Andorians | 8
Aubrei    | 4
Gterrat   | 3
I also like the idea of loading colonists into colony ships and having the colony start with whatever races were loaded.[/code]
Well a Non-segregated approach gets even more complicated.

I was merely trying to flesh out how you could Change the species on a planet with a segregated approach as the normal state 90% of the time.

Since I believe we are currently planning on having Planetary Focus changes work like that (fractional bonuses), there is no reason why it shouldn't work.

After all, the times I could see it being used are
1. You want to 'purify your empire' (either for gameplay bonuses or just for the fun of it)... or diversify your empire, getting a little bit of everything)

2. You want to optimice your 'Focus*species bonus' (so research planets get Psilons, Production ones get Klackons)

3. You want to optimize your environmental usage (so putting Humans on that Terra world you colonized near the beginning of the game, to get its rich minerals.)

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marhawkman
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#25 Post by marhawkman » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:54 pm

Ah.. I see. I guess that makes sense. Although the "emigration to nowhere" bit seems a bit harsh...

EDIT: This is also why I favor having the species onboard a colony ship determined by the species living where the ship was built.
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Krikkitone
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#26 Post by Krikkitone » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:53 am

marhawkman wrote:Ah.. I see. I guess that makes sense. Although the "emigration to nowhere" bit seems a bit harsh...

EDIT: This is also why I favor having the species onboard a colony ship determined by the species living where the ship was built.
Well if they actually had nowhere to emigrate to, then there would be unhappiness similar to what you get from Genocide (emigration itself should cause some minor unhapiness... it is forced relocation after all)

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Geoff the Medio
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#27 Post by Geoff the Medio » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:40 am

Krikkitone wrote:(emigration itself should cause some minor unhapiness... it is forced relocation after all)
That could depend on your empire's influence over it's populace. If you're good, then they'd be complaining about how long it takes to get offworld...

AthlonFx
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#28 Post by AthlonFx » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:36 am

Your race is the only race that matter. Other races should just take up space and be use only as force labor. Since I don’t believe you can force your own citizen to work . There should be options to rid your self i.e. purify your empire of these other races as well. Foreign races should add none of their bones. Their present in your empire should only provide force labor bounces. That would be their only advantage. The disadvantage would be the fact that these other races take up space in your max pop without contributing to other duty such as farming, mining, research ect.. Why you might ask simply because the main goal of the game is to obliterate your enemies from the galaxy. Sooner or later your race will be the only race in the entire galaxy anyway, and since force labor is all already and option might as well make good use of it.

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marhawkman
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#29 Post by marhawkman » Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:12 am

Ermm.... That approach does seem like the sort of thing you'd expect to see as a species attribute. But having the game handle races that way sounds really bad. The only games I've seen that did it that way annoyed the heck out of me.
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Kharagh
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#30 Post by Kharagh » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:01 am

My thoughts exactly. If we go with your approach, AthlonFX, we will produce a very onesided game and lose many features which would make the game much more fun to play.
Diplomacy and trade relations with other races can be a lot of fun and will greatly increase the options a player has to survive in the galaxy.

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