wobbly wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:39 pm
LienRag wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:22 pm
Right now the balance is tipped towards Detection and against Stealth, so I'm not sure that early Detection needs encouragement...
Is this why everyone is currently researching Active Radar 1st instead of Weapon/Armour/Hull Techs or Boosters like robotic production?
Yes, right now Active Radar comes usually quite early in the Research Queue; I believe the game to be more interesting when Symbiotics are still able to be stealthy, especially with the new modifications made by Ophiuchus (I believe) about Fleet Unstealthiness and Star Radiation values.
I mean, what is interesting is that Symbiotics are easily countered by AR (or the too powerful Continuous Scanning policy), so they are not unbalanced, but depending on each player's Research Queue there's usually a gap in when each player gets stealth/detection that opens tactical/strategic options.
So making Active Radar even more of a mandatory research doesn't seem to me to really improve the game.
If you want to have an early Detection strategy possible in the game, that may be a good idea, but you need to think more about how to do it without harming the way it works now.
I have no idea how, to be clear.
wobbly wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:39 pmHalf the reason getting stealth tech early is not worth it is, getting detection tech early is not worth it. And vice versa.
You definitely have a point there.
Oberlus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:37 am
The nests... This is only to be able to see it, but the GG itself would still be visible, right?
I guess making it 25 is OK.
Oberlus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:32 am
wobbly wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:51 am
I guess the next question is whether larval krakens should be stealthier than big krakens and what numbers to use.
Let's make the biggest krakens stealth 15, medium 35, and larval 55, and give them all +20 stealth bonus on GGs.
Requires level 1 to see large krakens, level 2 if they are in GGs.
Level 3 is enough to see medium krakens outside GGs.
Hunting larval krakens would need at least level 4, or 5 in GGs.
What ?
That's not at all the original idea !
I'm not saying that being different is necessarily bad, but it's a complete upheaval of the game balance so far, it can't be done just on a whim without thinking hard
Nowadays we only have stealthy monsters in fixed positions (like Asteroid Snails) that can be predicted (only in Asteroids, and most of the time in Asteroids with Specials) or that are harmless (small snowflakes, space volcanoes...).
Changing that is a huge modification of the balance of the game !
It would mean at least that it's not possible to send unescorted ships, which changes a lot of the early expansion strategies and probably the whole game economy.
Also, it goes completely against the topic of this thread, Peaceful Hidden Expansion, that is heavily based on, well, peaceful hidden expansion, so sending hidden ships rather than heavy escorts.
Yes, it's possible to be hiding also from monsters, but :
1 - If you try to colonize or outpost a planet, you lose stealth (and imho that shouldn't change); so if you do it without knowing that a monster is here, you lose a (quite valuable) colony ship through no mistake of yours.
2 - Monsters share their Detection values, and also share it with Natives AFAIK, so if you send your hidden ship on a system with natives (even hidden natives) or in the detection range of natives and that a hidden monster is (unbeknownst to you) in the system, you also lose a (quite valuable) colony ship through no mistake of yours.
The original idea is to give stealth to Krakens on Gas Giants, it already tips the balance somehow as it introduces stealthy dangerous monsters that are not stationary, but at least by limiting them to Gas Giants it lets the player know where they aren't and gives him a minimum agency.
So let's keep to that at least for an early try.
It will remove the strategy of going early for Kraken Nests through patience and detection and will require heavy escorts (or dumb luck) to outposts Kraken Nests (don't see how that helps Sly, BTW), but that may be better for game balance, I don't know.
So, if you need numbers :
I believe the baseline Stealth of Krakens is 5, right ?
I would have then, when they're in GG :
Great Kraken +5 (so they're hidden only on heavy radiating star systems)
Krakens + 20
Small Krakens + 40
And nests not hidden.