Pilot/Flight Crew Slots- future enhancement

[Daybreak]

I would like to see larger ships have some extra pilot slots, as they increase in size.

A titan for example may have 3 pilot slots

1 - Pilot, always from the planet the ship was built
2 - From list of species, but you must have conquered (It maybe that the planet with th secondary crew member must be in same system)
3 - From list of species, but you must have conquered (It maybe that the planet with th third crew member must be in same system)

Each bring their unique abilities like
Piloting Skill
Navigation Skill (new species suggested viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12352 )
Shield Skill
Armoured Skill (new species suggested viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12353&sid=bd6417115 ... eed8ad72ad )
Stealth Skill (change to species suggested viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12351&sid=e83111dbe ... 30666deb85 )
Detection Skill

I realise that new ships may have to be built at the time, or you save various combinations, based on various species, but I think this would add more complexity to the game.

[Oberlus]

There is no such thing as pilot slots currently. Ships have a single species attribute, same as planets.

The idea is nice, appealing from certain perspective. I imagine Titan maned by skilled Wookie technicians and Misiorla pilots.
But it reduces strategic dilemmas: what should I pick, the extra armor species or the extra damage species? Both!

[Daybreak]

There is no such thing as pilot slots currently. Ships have a single species attribute, same as planets.

The idea is nice, appealing from certain perspective. I imagine Titan manned by skilled Wookie technicians and Misiorla pilots.
But it reduces strategic dilemmas: what should I pick, the extra armor species or the extra damage species? Both!

I know there is no such thing at the moment.

But also at the moment you dont really have a choice. Noone would give up the abilities of a piloting species for 1 extra shield or extra detection (Excepting scouts from that)

This idea does increase the importance of capturing a much broader number of natives or other species, and coupled with more species that have skills that affect ships, a much broader chance that everyone will have some species close by that will enhance their fleets

Anyway, I am just going to throw ideas into this forum.

Think about this - the more species skills that affect ships we can come up with the more this idea becomes more interesting, for the different fleets that could be created.

[Ophiuchus]

This idea does increase the importance of capturing a much broader number of natives or other species, and coupled with more species that have skills that affect ships, a much broader chance that everyone will have some species close by that will enhance their fleets

the thing is like oberlus suggested, having dedicated skill slots makes the current situation worse.

if you have a slot per "skill" you simply take the best species for that skill.

currently we have some combat skills (and it might be nice to have more of those) and we can design the tradeoffs into the species.

so the fulver are only "good" pilots, but they have extra fuel; you might prefer that in some circumstances (and some ship designs) to having "great" pilots. there are refuel capabilities with sly and laenfa.

if there was another tradeoff it might make sense - e.g. we could add secondary crew parts for core slots - that should be possible and already doable in FOCS.
That has some heavy cost, but it might be worthwhile to combine great pilots with some other great skill.

[Daybreak]

the thing is like oberlus suggested, having dedicated skill slots makes the current situation worse.

Not sure I understand what the current situation is.

if you have a slot per "skill" you simply take the best species for that skill.

Not a slot per skill - a slot for any skill, with first slot taken by a pilot from the planet the ship was built.

For example -
Smaller ships - only one crew slot
Medium ships - two crew slots
Large ships -three slots

* here I am now adding a new impact to ships - a change to Telepathy (only natural telepathics) so they impact performance in battle.

Telepathy - Species with this trait when piloting will impact ships, by making 20% of all enemy fire totally miss.

Now imagine 2 fleets

Fleet one - Fulver: +1piloting

Fleet two - Trith: enemy fleets misss 20%

Now the impact of the Fulvers piloting skills are decreased


The point is the more species that impact the performace of ships the more varied the fleets we can have.

As the game progresses and we gain more speices that impact ships, then we have to choose which ones we will use for each crew slot, if we have more than 1.

It would be fantastic to have 10 to 20 species with traits that impact ships, but only 1, 2, or3 crew slots to fill.

so the fulver are only "good" pilots, but they have extra fuel; you might prefer that in some circumstances (and some ship designs) to having "great" pilots. there are refuel capabilities with sly and laenfa.

Yes but because damage is based around piloting nobody would use Sly as a pilot ever unless you sartedthe game with them, and as soon as you have a better speices you would use them. Basically all those other traits that affect ships are useless. You only ever would use the best piloting skills you can, and may get lucky with a secondary skill, like you do with Fulver.

if there was another tradeoff it might make sense - e.g. we could add secondary crew parts for core slots - that should be possible and already doable in FOCS.
That has some heavy cost, but it might be worthwhile to combine great pilots with some other great skill.

Not sure what FOCS is, but assume the map for the future.

Not sure I like giving up a current core slot for a crew part - the ships have so few now.

[Geoff the Medio]

Multiples species per ship is a level of detail that doesn't seem necessary.

[Daybreak]

I am now assumig the current situation is, how to mitigate the overall advantage an empire gains by having access to better +1 to +3 pilots. Lets face it, we all go for that if we can, as it makes our fleets way better.

Multiples species per ship is a level of detail that doesn't seem necessary.

the thing is like oberlus suggested, having dedicated skill slots makes the current situation worse.

Does it matter if it helps mitigate the current situation

If we have many specie traits that improve a ships combat skills, overall, it spreads the avantages out over the whole "galaxy" and that will mitigate the current piloting advanatages any empire may gain.

Even if you don't approve of flight crew slots, then mitigating the advantages of having a piloting species is a good thing.

However, you have to keep in mind, that generally speaking every empire reaches similar technologic levels, and finds/invades more species at about the same time as the game progresses, so having more flight crew slots as ships get larger, coupled with more species that can affect a ships performance will in itself be a broad occurence. One empire may not have a piloting species, but have other speices piloting their ships that mitigates the piloting skills of an opposing fleet.

[Geoff the Medio]

I am now assumig the current situation is, how to mitigate the overall advantage an empire gains by having access to better +1 to +3 pilots. Lets face it, we all go for that if we can, as it makes our fleets way better.
[...]
Does it matter if it helps mitigate the current situation

In principle, perhaps, but having to keep track of multiple species per ship is a level of comlication that is difficult to justify, and "good pilot species are really good" isn't adequate justification.

[Oberlus]

IMO, the way to solve the preference for good pilot species is to give alternatives: species with better armor and better stealth, and (not so good by still interesting) species with better speed and better fuel.

I don't like the "make telepaths pilots dodge 20% of shots", because it's the same as "give them 20% more structure", and for that we will add a good structure/armor species, independent from telepathy.

[Daybreak]

In principle, perhaps, but having to keep track of multiple species per ship is a level of complication that is difficult to justify, and "good pilot species are really good" isn't adequate justification.

Many of the affects of different species would be seen in the ships statistics, although some may need new gui metics to be shown, however it is way simpler to see than some of the other changes in 4.10+

Adequate justification - The known problem with piloting species has been around for a long time, and having other species which affect ships to mitigate that problem, makes sense. Allowing more than one species as crew (keep in mind medium to larger ships only) allows variation of fleets. Anyway I leave that decision up to the devs.

I don't like the "make telepaths pilots dodge 20% of shots", because it's the same as "give them 20% more structure", and for that we will add a good structure/armor species, independent from telepathy.

I did change the telepaths to only dodge 20% of organic pilots shots, so it does make it different. That would make an armoured species better overall.

I get it, but what if there is no armoured species around. The more varied the species that can affect ships, the more chance you have, to have some species that ehances your ships.

[Oberlus]

I don't like the "make telepaths pilots dodge 20% of shots", because it's the same as "give them 20% more structure", and for that we will add a good structure/armor species, independent from telepathy.

I did change the telepaths to only dodge 20% of organic pilots shots, so it does make it different. That would make an armoured species better overall.

I get it, but what if there is no armoured species around. The more varied the species that can affect ships, the more chance you have, to have some species that ehances your ships.

Right. That "only against organic" gives it a twist, but there are no mechanics in the backend for missing shots.
For the second part, what if there are no good pilot species around?

[Daybreak]

Right. That "only against organic" gives it a twist, but there are no mechanics in the backend for missing shots.

There are no mechanics in the background for any piloting species except their own skill. A Telepath would affect their aim, by messing with their brain.

For the second part, what if there are no good pilot species around?

Thats the point!

by having more species with skills that affect ships, you are likely to find at least one, and if that is not a piloting skill, then it maybe be a skill that helps mitigate the piloting skills of an enemy fleet.

[Ophiuchus]

IMO, the way to solve the preference for good pilot species is to give alternatives: species with better armor and better stealth, and (not so good by still interesting) species with better speed and better fuel.

+1

there is also the option to split the pilot skill into fighter pilot and gunner. Or even give some species an advantage with certain weapon systems.

[Ophiuchus]

but there are no mechanics in the backend for missing shots.

There are no mechanics in the background for any piloting species except their own skill.

what oberlus meant is what you describe is not easy to implement. other things are in the backend, e.g. selecting certain classes of targets, not able to shoot in a bout, changing the number of shots or the level of damage, structure, the shield value etc

[Daybreak]

there is also the option to split the pilot skill into fighter pilot and gunner. Or even give some species an advantage with certain weapon systems.

+1 like that idea

but there are no mechanics in the backend for missing shots.

There are no mechanics in the background for any piloting species except their own skill.

what oberlus meant is what you describe is not easy to implement. other things are in the backend, e.g. selecting certain classes of targets, not able to shoot in a bout, changing the number of shots or the level of damage, structure, the shield value etc

hmm ok

I was hoping there would be 10 to 20 species all with a trait that would affect ships in different ways. If the combat system throws up barriers to implementation, and there is a only a few new traits that affect ships, then I would not recommend having more than the one crew slot either.

I was hoping we could add more complexity to fleet building, and strategy to battles.