Likes and dislikes for species?

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

Moderator: Oberlus

Message
Author
User avatar
LienRag
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 2148
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#16 Post by LienRag »

It's gruesome but probably the best idea so far...

User avatar
Grummel7
Space Dragon
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#17 Post by Grummel7 »

I said concentration camps are a different story, perhaps I should have said "a different topic", now the original topic has completely been replaced... :roll:

Thinking about science fiction, Matrix comes to my mind. The film's background story is that rather brain-dead (Humans were used to generate energy), but something like the Matrix could surely be used. Perhaps similar to Forced Labor Internment, except that it produces science by "harvesting" brain power.

When it comes to quickly exterminating a population, I still think that should be done with Troops or Bombardment. There are dozens of stories of that kind (invasions usually fail of course, but Egassem should be immune to country music :twisted:). Maybe Trith (or all Telepats) could also have a way to convince the population to commit suicide, too.

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 3433
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#18 Post by Ophiuchus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:16 pm ...who don't mind other in-game species / populations / empires condemning or otherwise negatively reacting to the action, or who specifically want to make a show to their favoured population that they are getting rid of the undesired population.
This general concept is and should not be a specific reference to any real-world events, and a name that doesn't specifically evoke any real world events would be preferable, I think.
From my not-native-english perspective: Labor camps vs extermination camps sounds more suited as it produces PP. Else i guess extermination camps is better than concentration camps.
Geoff the Medio wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:16 pm If you want to have a less-easily-criticized or more-easily-spun-by-PR option for population elimination, then a different sort of building or other gameplay mechanism would be more suitable...
just thought that an evil "advanced" species would have other options to achieve the extermination goal, but as you said it basically boils down if the exterminators care about their reputation.

I am not convinced we need many different ways of depopulating a planet. We have bombardment (removing population of enemy planet), evacuation (moving population away), the camps (removing of unwanted population in exchange for industry and having low stability while you are).

There should be an option for those who want to roleplay an empire which is not exterminating population - and i guess as long the galaxy is not completely filled you can move population to some planet and give it independence. Another "ethical" option to remove population is policy in order to lower growth rate (make people not no new offsprings) and let them die off old age.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

User avatar
LienRag
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 2148
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#19 Post by LienRag »

Grummel7 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:59 pm Thinking about science fiction, Matrix comes to my mind. The film's background story is that rather brain-dead (Humans were used to generate energy),
Well, no. Or at least, not originally. This completely stupid explanation comes from the producers fucking up the Wachosky's brilliant idea because they thought that the public was too stupid to understand it : the Matrix was running in human brains, the humans are the material component of the Matrix (the chips, if you prefer).
That's why the One can alter the Matrix, s/he's able to alter the Matrix' computations running in his own brain.

Sort of (unconsensual) Distributed Thought Computing, in FreeOrion terms...

wobbly
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 1880
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#20 Post by wobbly »

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:35 pm
Geoff the Medio wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:16 pm ...who don't mind other in-game species / populations / empires condemning or otherwise negatively reacting to the action, or who specifically want to make a show to their favoured population that they are getting rid of the undesired population.
This general concept is and should not be a specific reference to any real-world events, and a name that doesn't specifically evoke any real world events would be preferable, I think.
From my not-native-english perspective: Labor camps vs extermination camps sounds more suited as it produces PP. Else i guess extermination camps is better than concentration camps.
Forced labour camps is a slightly broader term. Pretty much runs the range from extermination camps to using prison labour.

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 3433
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#21 Post by Ophiuchus »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:56 pm ...Population Reprocessing Centers: ...
how about Population Upcycling Center? This indicates making some use of "worthless life forms" without specifying the way of generating value. (this could be forced labour, reprocessing, zoo, upgrading them to (thought) machines using neurotech,...) - this could boost the current focus.

Still does not fit Trith. They want extermination camps, but fluff wise the gains of those should be low. Gameplay wise - you would want a good reason to sacrifice your hard earned population. Maybe they also downgrade populations to exobot level - maybe a exobot transformation building (cost/time depending on current population), where you can change the planet species to exobot.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

User avatar
LienRag
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 2148
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#22 Post by LienRag »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:44 am maybe a exobot transformation building (cost/time depending on current population), where you can change the planet species to exobot.
Oh, very nice !
I think it's the best (and more Sci-fi) idea we've got so far.

User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 5715
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#23 Post by Oberlus »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:44 am Still does not fit Trith. They want extermination camps, but fluff wise the gains of those should be low.
I don't like changing species to exobot, sounds... weird (except if you mean letting one population die and be replaced by newly built exobots). If so, one could prefer to change species to another species (capital species probably).
But this is similar to the idea of controlling the minds of the populations, through telepathy, brain implants, brain parasites... Turn the species into nearly-mindless, easy to control (and not annoying to be nearby if you are Trith) slaves. That would remove the need of Trith for extermination. I thought of this as a late game policy.

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 3433
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#24 Post by Ophiuchus »

Oberlus wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:08 pm
Ophiuchus wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:44 am Still does not fit Trith. They want extermination camps, but fluff wise the gains of those should be low.
I don't like changing species to exobot, sounds... weird (except if you mean letting one population die and be replaced by newly built exobots). If so, one could prefer to change species to another species (capital species probably).
But this is similar to the idea of controlling the minds of the populations, through telepathy, brain implants, brain parasites... Turn the species into nearly-mindless, easy to control (and not annoying to be nearby if you are Trith) slaves. That would remove the need of Trith for extermination. I thought of this as a late game policy.
yes, exobots here just represent not free-thought species. could also be done through some kind of lobotomy. or the borg upgrade.
it would not be mechanic bots (in case you dont downgrade robotic species).

so maybe there could be "bots" for different metabolisms. but i find that not too interesting in the context of ways to remove population.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 5715
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#25 Post by Oberlus »

Move pop between planets:
- Evacuation building: from this planet to same-species allied supply-connected planets, impossible if no available destinations.
- Migration policies: colonization accellerates growth at young colonies and slows down growth at old colonies; colonialism do the opposite.

Remove population of an owned planet:
- Genocide / Mass murder: current conc. camps. but faster killing and less PP, and maybe extra IP cost. Fluff clearly states that population is killed.
- Forced migration: population is forced to leave the planet. The implementation could just banish them or use a mechanic similar to evacuation, towards non-allied planets, supply-connected or not. So players can do ethnic cleansing without committing genocide.

Exploit populations
- Forced Labour / Exploitation policy: in Geoff's list, more PP on bad stability planets.
- Matrix brain exploitation: turn population into computing vegetables.
- Borg implant: more PP and stability on non-capital species.

User avatar
LienRag
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 2148
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#26 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:48 pm Move pop between planets:
- Evacuation building: from this planet to same-species allied supply-connected planets, impossible if no available destinations.
Interesting if one needs to have connection to a destination (so possible for other players to blocus it); don't force the destination to have room for the evacuee, that would force too much boring micro-management imho.

User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 5715
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#27 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:35 pm don't force the destination to have room for the evacuee, that would force too much boring micro-management imho.
Evacuation is not for veiled extermination, so no evacuation to void. If an empire wants to clear out a planet, needs to do it in a good way with no bad consequences or a bad way with good consequences, and the latter is achieved with conc. camps.
Plus there would be no micromanagement whatsoever that I can think of.

User avatar
LienRag
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 2148
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#28 Post by LienRag »

Maybe micromanagement is not the right term, but it would force to check all the planets of the Empire to verify that they have room for the evacuee, and maybe to remove some growth focus to have these planets lower their population then once the evacuation is complete reset focus on growth...
All things tedious and that do not bring much to the game.

User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 5715
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#29 Post by Oberlus »

You could wait for a sitrep telling you evacuation failed, or check out Objects Window, show current and target pop, order by species...

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 3433
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: Likes and dislikes for species?

#30 Post by Ophiuchus »

Oberlus wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:05 pm You could wait for a sitrep telling you evacuation failed, or check out Objects Window, show current and target pop, order by species...
sitrep (evacuees have no place to go) would work well I think
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

Post Reply