Situational Stealth

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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Oberlus
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Re: Situational Stealth

#16 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 6:23 pm I believe that for Techs it doesn't need to be unlocked by another object, it handles that through the "prerequisite" instruction ?
It worked for the other Techs that I created, and actually that's the reason why I created an unlocking Tech for each object that I created, to avoid having to modify existing FOCS files each time there's an update - I just put the new Tech in the right folder and it stays here even if I have to re-copy the updated Default folder.
[/quote]
Oh, right. And you have that:

Code: Select all

prerequisites = "CON_ARCH_PSYCH"
No idea then why it doesn't show as unlocked if you got the prerequisite tech researched.

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Re: Situational Stealth

#17 Post by LienRag »

Does the Folder where I put the FOCS file matters ?
I put it in the Techs/Spy one, normally it should be fine...

Or would it be one of the things that cannot be added after Galaxy Generation ?
I'm not sure that I didn't forget this tech at the beginning of the game, I may have added the FOCS file for the tech later.

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Re: Situational Stealth

#18 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 6:49 pm Or would it be one of the things that cannot be added after Galaxy Generation ?
I'm not sure that I didn't forget this tech at the beginning of the game, I may have added the FOCS file for the tech later.
I think it should show up in the research window when you restart FO, but I'm not sure.
Try out, start a new game and go check if the tech appears (locked when CON_ARCH_PSYCH is not researched, unlocked when researched).

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LienRag
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Re: Situational Stealth

#19 Post by LienRag »

I tried to launch a new game, to no avail.
PEBKAC, as usual : Reticular_controlfocs.txt instead of Reticular_control.focs.txt and without my glasses I wasn't able to see that there was a missing dot.

So I was able to test it and it works, but there is a problem, it gives the maximum Stealth Bonus also to Large planets, not only to Huge ones.

(20 * Statistic If condition = Planet size = Huge) should be zero if the planet is not Huge, right ?

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Re: Situational Stealth

#20 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:54 pm (20 * Statistic If condition = Planet size = Huge) should be zero if the planet is not Huge, right ?
No. It should be zero if no Huge planet exists (in the universe)
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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Re: Situational Stealth

#21 Post by LienRag »

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 9:08 pm
LienRag wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 8:54 pm (20 * Statistic If condition = Planet size = Huge) should be zero if the planet is not Huge, right ?
No. It should be zero if no Huge planet exists (in the universe)
Ooops !
SetStealth value = Value + 10 + (20 * Statistic If condition = And [ Planet InSystem id = Source.SystemID Planet size= Huge ])
it is then.

Here's the corrected code, that works.
I added exclusions so that it can't be build on Capitol (even after moving the Imperial Palace), since having Laenfas at 55 Stealth on their Homeworld at the late early-game was a balance problem imho¹.
I also made early end-game detection Techs (the ones that are around the level of nowadays Omni-Scanner) remove the Industry penalty for Huge Planets (if I removed it for Large ones it would have encouraged spamming this building I believe).

As it is I believe this building to be a valuable addition to the game.

Code: Select all

BuildingType
    name = "BLD_RETICULAR_CONTROL"
    description = "BLD_RETICULAR_CONTROL_DESC"
    buildcost = 50 * [[BUILDING_COST_MULTIPLIER]]
    buildtime = 10
    location = And [
        Planet
	Or [
	   Planet size = Huge
	   Planet size = Large
		]
        Not Contains Building name = "BLD_RETICULAR_CONTROL"
	Not Contains Building name = "BLD_AUTO_HISTORY_ANALYSER"
        Not Contains Building name = "BLD_CULTURE_ARCHIVES"
        Not Contains Building name = "BLD_IMPERIAL_PALACE"
        Not Contains Building name = "BLD_MEGALITH"
        Not Contains Building name = "BLD_MILITARY_COMMAND"

        OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
	
    ]
    enqueuelocation = [[ENQUEUE_BUILD_ONE_PER_PLANET]]
    effectsgroups = [
        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [ 
		WithinDistance distance = 0.00001 condition = Source
		Happiness low = 10
			]
            stackinggroup = "BLD_RETICULAR_CONTROL_STEALTH_STACK"
	    accountinglabel = "BLD_RETICULAR_CONTROL_STEALTH"
		
                    
            effects = [
		SetStealth value = Value + 10 + (20 * Statistic If condition = And [ Planet InSystem id = Source.SystemID Planet size= Huge ])
		SetTargetInfluence value = Value - 1
		SetTargetIndustry value = Value - 2 + (1 * Statistic If condition = OwnerHasTech name = "SPY_DETECT_5" ) + (1 * Statistic If condition = OwnerHasTech name = "SPY_DETECT_7" )
			]
	]
	
    icon = "icons/building/lighthouse.png"

#include "/scripting/common/enqueue.macros"
#include "/scripting/common/base_prod.macros"

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Re: Situational Stealth

#22 Post by Oberlus »

Variable Pressure Nanocoating

I missed where it is supposed to be unlocked in your version.


My thoughts:

I would tie it to Gas Giant Generation and Nanotech: unlock it with GGG tech (the technology to tap into GGs to extract its energy is also the one that allows the construction of ships capable of entering GGs) and give the extra stealth bonus with nanotech. Or change the nano name for something else and use another tech instead for the extra bonus if nanotech is too early in game.

I would make the stealth bonus apply only when there is a GG that is unowned, or owned by the same or an ally empire (that is, not possible to hide within a GG where peace/enemy empires already have presence). I think it makes it more balanced and not so hard to counter.

I don't like the nano valves fluff for speed reduction, I would change it for something about gravity wheel of the GGs slowing down the ships, and apply it only when they have the stealth bonus (they started turn within a GG), and make the speed malus a -20.

If it is called coating, I expect it to occupy an external slot. Changing the name to something related to a gravity field that keeps a bubble of regulated pressure or something like that (and then tie the extra bonus to the first tech of shields or maybe gravitonics) would make much more sense to me. Being internal means that it is better for organic hulls. Should we prefer to give it more use in robotic hulls, it could be make external and keep the coating fluff.
//Edit: the bubble hull only has an internal slot, giving it another one for "coated" colonizers or extra-fuel scouts would be great for early stealth expansion with Laenfa and Sly//

I don't know about cost, probably fine.

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Re: Situational Stealth

#23 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:28 am Variable Pressure Nanocoating
I missed where it is supposed to be unlocked in your version.
I dabbled a little bit with it, but finally I made a cheap tech (biomimesis) unlocked by Genetic Engineering, so very early in the game (for a +10 stealth bonus, the additional +20 bonus comes with Xenological Hybridization).

Oberlus wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:28 am My thoughts:

I would tie it to Gas Giant Generation and Nanotech: unlock it with GGG tech (the technology to tap into GGs to extract its energy is also the one that allows the construction of ships capable of entering GGs) and give the extra stealth bonus with nanotech. Or change the nano name for something else and use another tech instead for the extra bonus if nanotech is too early in game.
Interesting fluff idea, but imho the part is more interesting (for the game, not necessarily for the player) as an offensive/ambush mechanism than as a defensive one.

That's why I made it not very Sly-friendly, and (in a much lesser way) there's a similar problem with tying it to GGG : it encourages developing this tech when one has Gas Giants to defend, rather than making the NanoValve part of an offensive strategy or of elastic defense.

It doesn't bring that much to the game to pile stealthy ships on your Sly capitol or on a GGG that you want to defend, compared to building a defensive matrix combining stealthy and regular ships to engage in a hide-and-seek deathmatch, or to operating a careful stealthy invasion exploiting holes in enemy detection.

Obviously I can't prevent the former strategy but I don't want to encourage it.

Also, unlocking it after Orbital Generation makes it appear quite late in the game, at a stage were Active Radar/Electromagnetic Damper can be unlocked.
Which means that the NanoValve will mostly be used in combination with Electromagnetic Damper, which reduces the strategic diversity.

I made it unlockable very early, so it's usable solo for a short time (but ships built that way are not necessarily useless after, since the additional bonus kicks in later) - and with some hulls, even after that (well, if the Continuuous Scanning Policy is rebalanced).



Oberlus wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:28 am I would make the stealth bonus apply only when there is a GG that is unowned, or owned by the same or an ally empire (that is, not possible to hide within a GG where peace/enemy empires already have presence). I think it makes it more balanced and not so hard to counter.
Interesting, I have not considered that.
In a way you're right (about the balance/countering possibility), though I'm not sure I would be able to code that in FOCS.

I'm quite wary about making it a defensive rather than offensive device, though, as already mentioned.

Remember that if they don't came from another Gas Giant (and the speed reduction is there exactly to make that possibility rarer) NanoValve-bearing ships enter the system unstealthed, so they're not entirely uncounterable (cough - lighthouses - cough).
And fluff-wise, having enemy ships coming out of nowhere and diving deep into your Gas Giants to hide seem dramatic enough to increase rather than decrease immersion.

Oberlus wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:28 am I don't like the nano valves fluff for speed reduction, I would change it for something about gravity wheel of the GGs slowing down the ships, and apply it only when they have the stealth bonus (they started turn within a GG), and make the speed malus a -20.

If it is called coating, I expect it to occupy an external slot. Changing the name to something related to a gravity field that keeps a bubble of regulated pressure or something like that (and then tie the extra bonus to the first tech of shields or maybe gravitonics) would make much more sense to me. Being internal means that it is better for organic hulls. Should we prefer to give it more use in robotic hulls, it could be make external and keep the coating fluff.
Fluff can be changed, I'm not necessarily the best at it.
I like the bio-mimesis idea though.
Also it works well with making it Sly-unfriendly.


About making it External, I have to say that I never considered it, as the idea came originally from your remark (if I'm not mistaken) that we don't have enough variety concerning Internal parts.
But why not indeed, especially for usability with other Hull lines.

The lack of variety in internal part will still be a problem though in that scenario.

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Re: Situational Stealth

#24 Post by LienRag »

I designed two Military Policies (not tested yet) to make the Military Slots more interesting and force arbitration.

Both are priorities set to Pilot training ; one to train them to use Lagrange points in systems so as to stay put and harder to detect :

Code: Select all

Policy
    name = "PLC_LAGRANGE_TACTICS"
    description = "PLC_LAGRANGE_TACTICS_DESC"
    short_description = "PLC_LAGRANGE_TACTICS_SHORT_DESC"
    category = "MILITARY_CATEGORY"
    adoptioncost = ceil(0.1 * Statistic Count condition = And [Ship OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner])
    effectsgroups = [
        [[SPECIES_LIKES_OR_DISLIKES_POLICY_STABILITY_EFFECTS]]

        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [
                Ship
                OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
            ]
           activation = ContainedBy And [
                System 
                Contains Planet 
		Contains Star
            ]
            
            effects = SetStealth value = Value + (Statistic Sum value = LocalCandidate.SizeAsDouble condition = And [ Planet InSystem id = Source.SystemID ])
	    ]
    ]
    graphic = "icons/policies/reserve_tank.png"

#include "/scripting/policies/policies.macros"
#include "/scripting/common/priorities.macros"
The other one to stay close to asteroids so as to be in their gravitic shadow :

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Policy
    name = "PLC_ASTEROID_TRAILING"
    description = "PLC_ASTEROID_TRAILING_DESC"
    short_description = "PLC_ASTEROID_TRAILING_SHORT_DESC"
    category = "MILITARY_CATEGORY"
    adoptioncost = ceil(0.3 * Statistic Count condition = And [Ship OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner])
    effectsgroups = [
        [[SPECIES_LIKES_OR_DISLIKES_POLICY_STABILITY_EFFECTS]]

        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [
                Ship
                OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
            ]
	 activation = ContainedBy And [
                System 
                Contains Planet type = Asteroids
            ]
            
            effects = SetStealth value = Value + 10
	    ]
    graphic = "icons/policies/reserve_tank.png"

#include "/scripting/policies/policies.macros"
#include "/scripting/common/priorities.macros"
With corresponding stringtables :

Code: Select all

PLC_LAGRANGE_TACTICS
Lagrange points optimization tactical training

PLC_LAGRANGE_TACTICS_DESC
A good usage of Lagrange points to keep position without having to rev up the engines allow for better stealth. The more Lagrange points there are in a system, the easier it is to use them and so the better the stealth.


PLC_ASTEROID_TRAILING
Asteroid Trailing Tactical Formation

PLC_ASTEROID_TRAILING_DESC
Training pilots intensively to trail asteroids as they move while staying close to them allow any ship, even those not looking like asteroids themselves, to be less visible in systems with Asteroid Belts.

The idea is to have Policies that do not give overwhelming stealth (that would unbalance the game) but yet give enough to make the difference in some situations. So it adds options to the player who adopts them, without driving his strategy entirely¹.
I hesitated to add Asteroid Stealth but the fluff is easy to understand, and also it makes Asteroid Hulls really useful by themselves (while without this Policy they have 25 Stealth which is nearly useless).

Imho these Policies should be unlocked very early, maybe by the Military Command building ?

Code: Select all

BuildingType
    name = "BLD_MILITARY_COMMAND"
    description = "BLD_MILITARY_COMMAND_DESC"
    captureresult = Destroy
    buildcost = 80 * [[BUILDING_COST_MULTIPLIER]]
    buildtime = 6
    location = And [
        Planet
        OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
        Not Contains Building name = "BLD_MILITARY_COMMAND"
        TargetPopulation low = 1
        Number low = 0 high = 0 condition = And [
            Building name = "BLD_MILITARY_COMMAND"
            OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
        ]
    ]
    unlock = [
        Item type = Policy name = "PLC_LAGRANGE_TACTICS"
        Item type = Policy name = "PLC_ASTEROID_TRAILING"
        
    ]
	
    enqueuelocation = [[ENQUEUE_BUILD_ONE_PER_PLANET]]
    effectsgroups = [
        [[SPECIES_LIKES_OR_DISLIKES_BUILDING_STABILITY_EFFECTS]]
    
        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [
                OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
                Capital
            ]
            activation = ContainedBy OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
            stackinggroup = "MILITARY_COMMAND_SLOT_METER_EFFECT"
            effects = SetEmpireMeter empire = Source.Owner meter = "MILITARY_CATEGORY_NUM_POLICY_SLOTS" value = Value + 1

        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [
                Object id = Source.PlanetID
                Planet
                OwnedBy empire = Source.ProducedByEmpireID
            ]
            accountinglabel = "BLD_MILITARY_COMMAND"
            priority = [[TARGET_EARLY_BEFORE_SCALING_PRIORITY]]
            effects = [
                SetMaxDefense value = Value + 5
                SetMaxTroops value = Value + 6
            ]
    ]
    icon = "icons/building/palace.png"

#include "/scripting/common/enqueue.macros"
#include "/scripting/common/priorities.macros"
#include "/scripting/common/base_prod.macros"
#include "/scripting/buildings/buildings.macros"
¹ The Lagrange stealth has the additional benefit to make the minor stealth bonus for Species that I proposed (steps of 5 in order to not break balance) get some usefulness (which was already true with the Hydroplasmic Hull, if this hull will be included in the game some day).

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Re: Situational Stealth

#25 Post by Oberlus »

Lagrangean: I don't like the fluff, at all. In order to attack someone you need to approach it, so staying put in very precise points of the system won't help, plus also makes it fairly easy to predict where will enemies hiding: in the open space, covered by nothing, just atached to gravitic wheels.

Asteroid trailing: I don't like the fluff (not that bad), nor that it would be another effect attached to asteroids.

For and interesting military policy focused on ship stealth, I like Silent Running (not situational).

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Re: Situational Stealth

#26 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:55 pm That's why I made it not very Sly-friendly, and (in a much lesser way)
Sly are supposed to be the show-case for distributed hidden (mostly peaceful) expansion. Against players that did not work in 0.4.9, mainly because of the lighthouse. With current content it is even more impossible (I think you found out in the slow game).

They have the big bonus to planet stealth. But they are not really a contender in the stealthy ship tech race (not good at research, nor population etc).
The planetary stealth and distributed nature should prevent them from having to invest in military as much as other empires and in turn make up for lacking in other skills.

So it might make sense that there is a Sly-friendly ship stealth tech (actually flux bubble hull is supposed to provide that for early/mid-game colonisation), maybe after the flux bubble stealth becomes useless.

Probably we should upgrade the AI to invest more into detection if close-encountering dangerous Sly so this is more visible in the single-player game.
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Re: Situational Stealth

#27 Post by LienRag »

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:15 am
Sly are supposed to be the show-case for distributed hidden (mostly peaceful) expansion. Against players that did not work in 0.4.9, mainly because of the lighthouse. With current content it is even more impossible (I think you found out in the slow game).

They have the big bonus to planet stealth. But they are not really a contender in the stealthy ship tech race (not good at research, nor population etc).
I get your arguments, but the thing is that this NanoValve will obviously, even the way I designed it now, be a very important boon for a Sly Empire.
I just don't want to make it too easy for them that it'll become a total no-brainer.

As it is, they can have the +10 Stealth bonus with a reasonable investment, which is still useful quite late in the game (combined with other techs), but if they want to go the full way, they'll have to invest seriously, not get it for (nearly) free.

I guess Laenfas and Chatos will integrate these NanoValves more easily and more quickly, but since they don't live in Gas Giants (and that their Gas Giants are not stealthy, for that very reason) they'll have to fight to make good use of them.


Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:15 am Probably we should upgrade the AI to invest more into detection if close-encountering dangerous Sly so this is more visible in the single-player game.

Very good idea. Same with Laenfa or anything stealthy, actually.
Maybe a counter adding "investment weight" each time they lose a ship to an enemy they didn't detect ?
It's obviously gamable (just avoid skirmishes before lashing a full-fledged eradication attack) but still way better that what we have now.

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Re: Situational Stealth

#28 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:04 am For and interesting military policy focused on ship stealth, I like Silent Running (not situational).
The fluff for Silent Running is quite interesting, but globally Situational Stealth add a lot to the game and the strategic constraints, and is much funnier to play, much more than non-situational.
Unless you prove me wrong by a very creative complete revamp of the
Stealth mechanisms, I believe that non-situational stealth should mostly be a support level for Situational one (i.e, keep the way non-situational stealth needs some investment to be countered, but can still be countered relatively easily; and have only the Situational one be a real threat).

Oberlus wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:04 am Lagrangean: I don't like the fluff, at all. In order to attack someone you need to approach it, so staying put in very precise points of the system won't help, plus also makes it fairly easy to predict where will enemies hiding: in the open space, covered by nothing, just atached to gravitic wheels.
Well, tactically, you're right.
But strategically, it's different : I'm talking about strategic preparation for combat, not last-minute attack from a cover position.
So being able to keep a fleet (or parts of it) entirely silent is certainly an advantage to avoid early detection by the enemy.

The problem in general with fluff, and the reason it dangerously leans towards "design by committee" the more the game advances, is that we don't have a precise definition of anything we're talking about, especially what is the duration of a turn, of a combat round, of what exactly is stealth and detection, of combat mechanisms (not in-game, I mean actual combat physics) except for very wide abstractions that everybody interprets differently.

And the open space is quite a cover by itself, due to its vastness.
So if we can find an explanation why it's not that easy to predict where the enemies will be (maybe simply that at the stage of strategic preparations, forces are too far away from each other to detect a non-moving enemy fleet, even if they suspect its position) I guess this fluff is salvageable.
Mostly, it makes use of a real and sounding spacy concept, which I like (and I guess most players will like too, if we can prevent disbelief); and more importantly, it gives very different Stealth boni in different systems, combining well with other boni and only seldom (but not never) being sufficient in itself.

Oberlus wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:04 am Asteroid trailing: I don't like the fluff (not that bad), nor that it would be another effect attached to asteroids.
I'm surprised that you don't like the fluff, it's a staple of sci-fi combat (at least the popular versions), especially since Asteroids are the only thing you can visually hide behind in space.
Also the fluff (trailing asteroids) makes it quite clear imho why it's different from asteroid-hull stealth (looking like an asteroid).

Another effect attached to asteroids : yes, you have a point.
Imho it still have the interest to work both in solo for non-asteroid hulls (the bonus is lower so it's still preferable to use Asteroid Hulls for asteroid-related stealth, especially since both boni stack) in specific configurations, and make the Asteroid Hull stealth playable (which I was never able to manage the way it works now, I mean with small or standard or heavy Asteroid Hulls).
Also, the ability to have combinations is imho strategically interesting.
Last edited by LienRag on Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Situational Stealth

#29 Post by Oberlus »

Let's crunch some numbers to know better about balance.
We need to calculate PP (if any), RP, IP from techs, buildings and policies used in each strategy "get warship with stealth X" and "get detection X", with estimated turns to achieve it with a moderate-to-total dedication. It's laborious but gives good estimations.

I'll start with the detection strategies. The ones in italics have the interstellar lighthose, so a 120 is actually a 90 plus the -30 stealth in system.

Get detection 30: Military Command Center (40 PP, 6 turns) + Continuous scanning (5+#ships IP, 20 turns) = 80 PP, 10 IP, 26-30 turns.
Get detection 30: Active Radar (100 RP, 5 turns) = 100 RP, 20-40 turns.

Get detection 50: Active Radar + Continuous scanning = 100 RP, 80 PP, 10 IP, 30-40 turns.
Get detection 50: Active Radar + Neutron Scanner (400 RP, 6 turns) = 500 RP, 50-100 turns.

Get detection 60: Active Radar + Interstellar Lighthouse (150 RP, 4 turns, building: 25 PP, 10 turns) = 250 RP, 100 PP, 30-60 turns.

Get detection 70: Active Radar + Neutron Scanner + Continuous scanning = 500 RP, 80 PP, 10 IP, 50-100 turns.
Get detection 70: Active Radar + Neutron Scanner + Sensors (1000 RP, 7 turns) = 1500 RP, 100-200 turns.

Get detection 80: Active Radar + Continuous scanning + Interstellar Lighthouse = 250 RP, 180 PP, 10 IP, 40-60 turns.

Get detection 90: Active Radar + Neutron Scanner + Sensors + Continuous scanning = 1500 RP, 80 PP, 10 IP, 100-200 turns.

Get detection 100: Active Radar + Neutron Scanner + Continuous scanning + Interstellar Lighthouse = 650 RP, 280 PP, 10 IP, 50-100 turns.

Get detection 120: Active Radar + Neutron Scanner + Sensors + Continuous scanning + Interstellar Lighthouse = 1650 RP, 380 PP, 10 IP, 100-200 turns.


BTW, this shows how Continuous Scanning is a very useful policy against stealth empire through the whole game until Omni-scanners (2000 RP, 8 turns), because it allows you to keep high detection levels without needing to invest much RP. The sacrifice for it is a military slot so it's not a no-brainer.

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Re: Situational Stealth

#30 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:08 pm Situational Stealth .. much funnier to play, much more than non-situational.
Some situational, some not.
When playing Sly, I find frustrating the situational stealth of regular asteroid hulls and the bubble hull. Sometimes I just could not pass through a monster until I got non-situational stealth (better hulls plus stealth parts).
We have or will have:
Non-situational:
- Line of internal-slot stealth parts (+20..+80)
- Some asteroid hulls (up to ?)
- Some organic hulls (up to 35?)
- An engine (+40)
Situational:
- All (or most?) asteroid hulls.
- The solar hull.
- The bubble hull.
- The future GG-stealth part.
- A building.
- One or two galaxy fields.


I want to add one non-situational ship stealth military policy that makes passive fleets to go at half speed with extra stealth.

I would agree with a situational policy that I like.

Situational stealth based on staying close to large body masses sounds cool, but the Lagrangean fluff is crap. Better something about gravitational concealing, but that makes sense for a ship part, internal slot, with zero base bonus on empty space and bigger bonus the more planets in the system or the more non-gravitic-stealthed ships in the fleet, with a malus for bigger fleets using the same gravitic-stealth (a ship moving alone is hard to conceal, but going together with other visually-detected masses, or travelling through planetary gravitic wheels, allows for easier gravitic concealing, fluff like that).


Try to find something better for a situational ship stealth policy that is not attached to asteroids. If nothing else, the one for asteroids seems acceptable, giving extra puch to empires going for asteroids.

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