Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
Moderator: Oberlus
Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
Currently, species with the trait NO_INFLUENCE do not have any influence upkeep (the trait disables every influence modifier, so also the upkeep).
Although it was unexpected for me, I think I like that: species that are completely indifferent to influence (does not produce it, does not require it).
Thoughts?
Although it was unexpected for me, I think I like that: species that are completely indifferent to influence (does not produce it, does not require it).
Thoughts?
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
I would rather separate influence generation and upkeep stats. Since species like Happybirthday should probably have low generation and high upkeep while Cray should probably have high generation and low upkeep.
-BTW: is influence and government out in the test builds now?
-BTW: is influence and government out in the test builds now?
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
Good point. Seconded. One trait for influence generation and one trait for influence upkeep.
Yes.
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
I'm sure if we thought about it we could have reasons why a no influence species might have an influence upkeep as well.
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
Jikes.
Influence is supposed to restrict exponential growth. A species which does not cost influence if such exists should be a corner case, so it does not circumvent the restriction (e.g. population restrictions like planetbound would be fine).
labgnome please up your balancing skills - your example seems ridiculous. High generation and low upkeep would be a settle everywhere species. Cray is broad env and good research. Happy birthday is narrow env, good research and bad population. Or maybe I am misunderstanding and you are just talking fluff?
What would good generation and high upkeep mean? About the same as average generation and average upkeep?
Lets have one kind of upkeep for all kind of species until we find out we have gaming needs for different kinds.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
I'm leaning toward agreeing with this. Having different basic upkeep costs for different species is something I wouldn't include in the first iteration, as tempting as that concept might be. Lets just stick with traits for the resource output, and see how that works.
We can always add traits that modify basic IP "consumption" of species later if we come up with ideas/mechanics that would make for interesting gameplay.
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
For the record (future iterations):
The appealing of the idea for me comes from MoO2, where (e.g.) hive-mind species would not have happiness, so no maluses nor bonuses from it, which could compensate.
If all noinfluence, cancolonize species are bad at the same important areas (research or production), so that a noinfluence empire could not succeed (there should be other species in the empire that would require influence), it would not break the growth limitations of empires.
The appealing of the idea for me comes from MoO2, where (e.g.) hive-mind species would not have happiness, so no maluses nor bonuses from it, which could compensate.
If all noinfluence, cancolonize species are bad at the same important areas (research or production), so that a noinfluence empire could not succeed (there should be other species in the empire that would require influence), it would not break the growth limitations of empires.
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
I did not do the maths here. But even if you make the resource-generation slower we are still on an exponential curve (which looks in the beginning very like a linear growth). So given a big enough universe you will have exponential explosion, but only for no-influence species colonies.Oberlus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:18 am For the record (future iterations):
The appealing of the idea for me comes from MoO2, where (e.g.) hive-mind species would not have happiness, so no maluses nor bonuses from it, which could compensate.
If all noinfluence, cancolonize species are bad at the same important areas (research or production), so that a noinfluence empire could not succeed (there should be other species in the empire that would require influence), it would not break the growth limitations of empires.
This might be ok. But then you need to define how big an empire may grow without that effect and choose the nerf level of noinfluence, cancolonize accordingly.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
Well the only one I can see at the moment with no influence, can colonize is exobots. So this is almost a question of whether exobots should require influence.
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
Exobots should, hands down. They can set any focus, that's a no-no for a species without upkeep.
I would give them no research or no production, rather than bad.
Re: Should NO_INFLUENCE species have influence upkeep?
You only escape the exponential curve if you give them no research AND no production.
Or you add something like stability getting lower the more colonies of that species exist in your empire for that species.
No research and no supply would be an interesting combination for a species though. You would need to integrate it into your supply networks by using other species. Or you could set it part of it to production and another part to stockpile distribution.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Look, ma... four combat bouts!