Yes. freeoriond got oom'd on 900 systems on my server (1GB RAM, of which at least 500 MB were free at the time of start).
Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
Moderator: Oberlus
Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
Well you would need to compare the RAM usage to less systems, how much RAM does the game need with 30 systems and the same amount of empires?
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Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
The influence project idea seems to have the most utility. I'm not super concerned with the AI using it, but maybe someone else can speak to that.Ophiuchus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:34 pmI think the refueling influence project will help in more than this case. E.g. one could start like battlestar galactica a colony ship going into the deep without scouting before. Also helps hidden colonisation in enemy territory (because no refuel there). AI probably wont be able to use it for a long time.
You're probably right. We definitely don't want the colony part becoming a better fuel tank. That may be an unavoidable problem.Personally I think adding the same effect like adding a fuel tank to the colony parts would not hurt. It feels a bit messy in the sense that it needs an effect and needs to be considered by AI. Bigger fuel boost would be strange because you maybe would start mounting a colony part in order to boost your military ship.
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Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
I think I need to drop in here and back Oberlus: That definitely also applies in the case of expansion. Trying to reach out far early on should be difficult and challenging. Not impossible, but definitely not easy.
- Geoff the Medio
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Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/pull/3039Ophiuchus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:34 pmI think the refueling influence project will help in more than this case. E.g. one could start like battlestar galactica a colony ship going into the deep without scouting before. Also helps hidden colonisation in enemy territory (because no refuel there). AI probably wont be able to use it for a long time.
Personally I think adding the same effect like adding a fuel tank to the colony parts would not hurt. It feels a bit messy in the sense that it needs an effect and needs to be considered by AI. Bigger fuel boost would be strange because you maybe would start mounting a colony part in order to boost your military ship.
Does not affect ships with weapons.
I added +3 fuel with the policy. Is that likely to be too much, removing too much of the challenge of supply / fuel, or perhaps too little to be ever worth using?Vezzra wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:25 amI think I need to drop in here and back Oberlus: That definitely also applies in the case of expansion. Trying to reach out far early on should be difficult and challenging. Not impossible, but definitely not easy.
Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
Let's wait for some feedback from our playtesters...Geoff the Medio wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:53 amI added +3 fuel with the policy. Is that likely to be too much, removing too much of the challenge of supply / fuel, or perhaps too little to be ever worth using?
Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
I think +3 fuel is excessive.
With Sly (no supply at all), using Spatial Flux Bubble I can colonize without having to stop for slow refuelling in every galaxy shape and planet density: there is always a GG at 7 hops or less from HW. I am forced to use that hull indeed, but that is not a problem. The only reasonable alternative for a stealth distributed empire are the early organic hulls, but those need more research time and have much less fuel. One can switch to camouflage asteroids or organics later, but against AI (that neglects detection techs), the Bubble with upgraded stealth techs is enough for colonization of the whole galaxy. Tested in several games.
The only problem that Sly can have, only sometimes, seldom, is for their starting colony ship (basic medium) not finding a GG within 4 hops of the HW. That would be solved by starting with an outpost ship along the colony ship.
With non-supply-crippled species, basic medium hull is good for reaching planets at 5-7 hops from HW. For roughs starts, you can get Orb. Cons. (+1 supply) soon and/or prioritize colonization of tiny/small planets for the extra supply. I never need to wait for slow refuelling, there is always an alternative, although it might involve getting first the smaller or less interesting planets, and very seldom delaying for a few turns the next colonization (due to needing to outpost an uninhabitable planet). But usually it is the need for armed ships what really delays my expansion with non-stealth empires, not that my colony ships can't reach destination.
So giving +3 fuel seems to me like huge and unnecessary.
And a no-brainer (at least for now, with current available policies) if it comes paired with cheaper colony parts. I think it should be one thing or the other. Maybe add a new policy that makes colony parts more expensive with +2 fuel.
Hull | Base fuel | Extra fuel from tank |
Basic Medium | 3 | NA |
Spatial Flux Bubble | 6 | NA |
Robotic | 2 | NA |
Symbiotic | 2 | 1 |
Static Multicellular | 2 | 1 |
The only problem that Sly can have, only sometimes, seldom, is for their starting colony ship (basic medium) not finding a GG within 4 hops of the HW. That would be solved by starting with an outpost ship along the colony ship.
With non-supply-crippled species, basic medium hull is good for reaching planets at 5-7 hops from HW. For roughs starts, you can get Orb. Cons. (+1 supply) soon and/or prioritize colonization of tiny/small planets for the extra supply. I never need to wait for slow refuelling, there is always an alternative, although it might involve getting first the smaller or less interesting planets, and very seldom delaying for a few turns the next colonization (due to needing to outpost an uninhabitable planet). But usually it is the need for armed ships what really delays my expansion with non-stealth empires, not that my colony ships can't reach destination.
So giving +3 fuel seems to me like huge and unnecessary.
And a no-brainer (at least for now, with current available policies) if it comes paired with cheaper colony parts. I think it should be one thing or the other. Maybe add a new policy that makes colony parts more expensive with +2 fuel.
Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
So basically what you're saying is that the supply policy shouldn't come
with cheaper colony parts, and that the availability of other policies will solve the "no-brainer" problem ?
Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
Yeah, sort of.
Summing up, two policies:
- Longer range for colony ships (+1 fuel).
- Cheaper colony ships (-20% cost).
With two policy slots you could get both.
- Geoff the Medio
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Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
A policy that gives +1 fuel to colony ships seems too narrow and minor to be worthwhile. Maybe +1 fuel to all ships would be a reasonable policy. I'd also err on the side of a bigger discount for colony ships, and perhaps make them more expensive by default (when the policy is not in place).
Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
Seems reasonable.Geoff the Medio wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:40 pm A policy that gives +1 fuel to colony ships seems too narrow and minor to be worthwhile. Maybe +1 fuel to all ships would be a reasonable policy. I'd also err on the side of a bigger discount for colony ships, and perhaps make them more expensive by default (when the policy is not in place).
Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
I think that splitting it up into two policies is a good idea. Maybe one or both could have a -1 malus to supply as extended colonization is usually a different strategy from extended supply.
For fuel, I would have a larger bonus, maybe +2, or even the original +3. Especially if we have a -1 to supply.Geoff the Medio wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:40 pmA policy that gives +1 fuel to colony ships seems too narrow and minor to be worthwhile. Maybe +1 fuel to all ships would be a reasonable policy. I'd also err on the side of a bigger discount for colony ships, and perhaps make them more expensive by default (when the policy is not in place).
Colony parts are already expensive enough. I would be hesitant to increase the cost of the colony parts.
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.
Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
You're really talking about two different things...Geoff the Medio wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:40 pm A policy that gives +1 fuel to colony ships seems too narrow and minor to be worthwhile. Maybe +1 fuel to all ships would be a reasonable policy. I'd also err on the side of a bigger discount for colony ships, and perhaps make them more expensive by default (when the policy is not in place).
+1 fuel is mostly a military policy, +n for Colony Ships only is a specialized policy for specific needs (like scattered colonization).
Too minor to be worthwhile in many cases, interesting (if n is big enough) for a specialized strategy. Isn't it what we want Policies to be ?
Re: Make Colony Parts Boost Fuel
Actually not really interesting regardless of n, because there are specialized hulls for that: early game you have flux bubble, with 6 fuel and stealth.LienRag wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:11 pm +1 fuel is mostly a military policy, +n for Colony Ships only is a specialized policy for specific needs (like scattered colonization).
Too minor to be worthwhile in many cases, interesting (if n is big enough) for a specialized strategy. Isn't it what we want Policies to be ?