better tech descriptions

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yoshi
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Re: better tech descriptions

#16 Post by yoshi »

that also seems profoundly stupid to make it so a tech you as the player researches that also automatically helps your competing players. since that didnt make any sense i didnt think this was the case

and again "the empire" on it's own is the same as "the source" it is confusing some people (me for instance) wouldnt be able to easily suss out exactly what this tech does. i get jammed on the definition of the source and my brain stops comprehending the rest.

"the empire that built this or researched this" is acceptable but also long winded

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: better tech descriptions

#17 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Techs might hurt other empires... They can do more than boost the researcher's planet meters. And they don't need to do this alone... Part of the description of a refinement to a building or ship part might make reference to other empires and the effects the building or ship part would have on them, which wouldn't likely be always good.

I didn't (recently?) suggest "the empire"... My previous post suggested "this empire".

Also, if you did use "the empire" you could clarify by adding a line in the description: "For empires that have researched this tech," and then refer to "the empire" later.

Also also, FYI, "the source" has to do with the effect, and nothing to do with the tech itself. All effects have a source and one or more target objects (determined by conditions in the effects group). "the source" is the source object of the effect being described. For effects groups (which is what you're actually describing... a combination of conditions about what is acted on, when it acts, and what is actually done) that are attached to techs, "the source" (object) is the capitol (planet) of the empire that researched the tech.

yoshi
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Re: better tech descriptions

#18 Post by yoshi »

see to me source automatically means the building itself not my homeworld. it still doesnt make sense to me that something i build will automatically effect my competing empires. they have border patrols to try and make sure my industrial waste isnt disposed of on one of thier planets dont they? and i have patrols to make sure my goods and services arent going to them. but mostly i have been seeing source = owners empire. in all these tech descriptions, with exceptions in some of them which i am pretty certain i wrote in. i think the only one with that exception is the bio terror projection lab thingy

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: better tech descriptions

#19 Post by Geoff the Medio »

If we're talking about a building, then yes, the source is the building itself. Techs and buildings are different... mainly because there's no obvious object to use as the source for a tech, so we had to use something, and the empire's capitol seemed like a good choice. This is unlike a building for which the source is the building itself, or a special, where it's the object the special is attached to (since specials aren't objects).

There's a lot of abstraction behind tech and building effects, and this lets us do just about anything with their effects, which can't all be ruled impossible by saying "but I have border patrols..." Two two cases where buildings might affect other empries are: a building that emits fear-inducing rays to nearby enemy systems, to lower they're morale; or an economic disruption building that allows you to disrupt enemy trading through hard-to-understand deceitful trade practices that would probably be banned by a treaty, though might be hard to detect even if you had one, and which would only work if you're trading with that empire.

The vast majority of buildings will probably affect their owner's planets only, and most techs will affect the researching empire only, but there will be some exceptions.

yoshi
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Re: better tech descriptions

#20 Post by yoshi »

and when and where i find effects that reach outside the owner empire i will add them. but putting in "your empire" just helps in the comprehension of the effect. especially since the effects of most of these techs and buildings are neither simple nor contrite. even my own descriptions of the buildings in some cases is long winded, putting what it effects in absolute terms which cannot possibly be mistaken will help in actually reading them.


currently i am stuck tyrying to figure out of planetary rings effects all planets in your empire or just the planets in the system it is built. i dont see a starlane jump = 0 in there but it doesnt make sense that it would effect all your planets everywhere

Sandlapper
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Re: better tech descriptions

#21 Post by Sandlapper »

Updated per Geoff's request, see if it works for you Yoshi:

________________________________________________

Stellar Tomography

All planets of an empire, that have a primary focus on science, will receive a research bonus relative to the type of star it is in proximity to.

Planets around a blackhole will receive a +4 bonus toward research
Planets around a neutron star will receive a + 3 bonus toward research
Planets around a blue or white star will receive a + 2 bonus toward research
Planets around a red, orange or yellow star will receive a + 1 bonus toward research

Distributed Thought Network.

All planets of an empire, with a primary focus on science, will receive a + 5 bonus toward maximum research.

Self Rotating Crops

All planets of an empire, with a primary focus on farming, will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum farming.

Habitation Domes

All planets of an empire, with an environmental rating of poor or adequate, will receive a +2 bonus toward maximum population.

Urban Farming

Any planet of an empire, with a primary focus on Industry and a minimum prudction of 20, will receive a +2 bonus toward maximum farming.

Enviro Mining

All planets of an empire, with an environment rating of good, will receive a bonus if the planet's Primary Focus, or Secondary Focus, meets the following criterea:

Planets with a Primary Focus of mining will receive a +2 bonus toward maximum mining.
Planets with a Primary Focus on balanced will receive a +1 bonus toward maximum mining.
Planets with a Secondary Focus on mining will receive a +1 bonus toward maximum mining.

Mining Engineering

All planets of an empire, with a primary focus on mining, will receive a mining bonus based on planet type.

Barren or Inferno type planets will receive a +4 bonus toward maximum mining.
Desert, Radiated, or Toxic type planets will recieve a +2 bonus toward maximum mining.
Tundra or Terran type planets will receive a +1 bonus toward maximum mining.

Exo Bots

All planets of an empire, with a primary focus on industry, will receive an industry bonus relative to the size of a planet.

Small or tiny sized planets will receive a +4 bonus toward maximum industry.
Medium sized planets will receive a +2 bonus toward maximum industry.
Large sized planets will receive a +1 bonus toward maximum industry.

Fusion Plants

All planets of an empire, with a population on them, will receive a +3 bonus toward maximum industry.

Orbital Infrastructure

All planets of an empire, with a population on them, will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum construction.

Subterranean Construction

All planets of an empire, with a population on them, will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum construction.

Colonial Economics

All planets of an empire, with a primary focus on trade, will receive a + 3 bonus toward maximum trading.

Etheral Economics.

All planets of an empire, with a primary focus on trade, will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum trade;.and a -2 decrease toward maximum construction.

Fleet Logistics

All planets of an empire will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum supply.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: better tech descriptions

#22 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Regardless of other considerations, "your empire" doesn't work... The tech works for all empires that have reserached it individually, not just "your" (ie. the reader) empire. If another empire researches the tech, that empire gets the effects, which is not your empire. If you research it, your empire gets the effects. But your empire doesn't get the effects if the other empire reseraches it.

I don't see how "your empire" is any clearer than "this empire", and you haven't addressed that suggestion yet, unless I've missed something...

Alternatively "the researching empire" isn't too wordy.

"an empire" seems a bit confusing... which empire is it? I assume it's the one who researched the tech, but it's not very clear...

yoshi
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Re: better tech descriptions

#23 Post by yoshi »

it is less confusing because YOUR empire cant possible be anyone elses ever it can only be YOURS. this empire could be construed as any empire on the map

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: better tech descriptions

#24 Post by Geoff the Medio »

yoshi wrote:it is less confusing because YOUR empire cant possible be anyone elses ever it can only be YOURS. this empire could be construed as any empire on the map
That's exactly why it shouldn't be "your empire"...

If you really dislike "this empire", then "the researching empire" perhaps with "For empires that have reserached this technology," above the list of specific effects.

re: planetary ring:

Code: Select all

scope = Contains condition = Source
This indicates that the only objects affected by this effects group are those which contain the source object. The source object is the planetary ring, which is a building located on / in the planet (as far as the code is concerned). This means that the planet contains the building, and that the building is contained by the planet on which it is built.

This might actually have a bug, now that I think about it, in that the system might also be treated as containing the building - I'm not sure off the top of my head - which would make the building affect the system as well, if its effects are compatible with systems... which isn't very likely, but it's probably poor form if true anyway.

yoshi
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Re: better tech descriptions

#25 Post by yoshi »

just effecting the planet makes sense. actually thing is currently you can only build on one planet in any given system

and why shouldnt it be your empire for effects that effect your empire. and something else for any effect that effects enemy empires or all planets equally independant of owner.


if something effects only my empire and i want or dont want that effect effecting something in my empire then the choice is all the more clearer. because when i read "your empire" in the description of a tech i am looking at i cant possibly confuse it ever. no matter how tired confused distracted or brain fuzzed i am

Sandlapper
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Re: better tech descriptions

#26 Post by Sandlapper »

Another attempt:

____________________________________________

Stellar Tomography

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, that have a primary focus on science, will receive a research bonus relative to the type of star it is in proximity to.

Planets around a blackhole will receive a +4 bonus toward research
Planets around a neutron star will receive a + 3 bonus toward research
Planets around a blue or white star will receive a + 2 bonus toward research
Planets around a red, orange or yellow star will receive a + 1 bonus toward research

Distributed Thought Network.

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, with a primary focus on science, will receive a + 5 bonus toward maximum research.

Self Rotating Crops

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, with a primary focus on farming, will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum farming.

Habitation Domes

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, with an environmental rating of poor or adequate, will receive a +2 bonus toward maximum population.

Urban Farming

Any planet of any empire completing research on this technology, with a primary focus on Industry and a minimum prudction of 20, will receive a +2 bonus toward maximum farming.

Enviro Mining

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, with an environment rating of good, will receive a bonus if the planet's Primary Focus, or Secondary Focus, meets the following criterea:

Planets with a Primary Focus of mining will receive a +2 bonus toward maximum mining.
Planets with a Primary Focus on balanced will receive a +1 bonus toward maximum mining.
Planets with a Secondary Focus on mining will receive a +1 bonus toward maximum mining.

Mining Engineering

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, with a primary focus on mining, will receive a mining bonus based on planet type.

Barren or Inferno type planets will receive a +4 bonus toward maximum mining.
Desert, Radiated, or Toxic type planets will recieve a +2 bonus toward maximum mining.
Tundra or Terran type planets will receive a +1 bonus toward maximum mining.

Exo Bots

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, with a primary focus on industry, will receive an industry bonus relative to the size of a planet.

Small or tiny sized planets will receive a +4 bonus toward maximum industry.
Medium sized planets will receive a +2 bonus toward maximum industry.
Large sized planets will receive a +1 bonus toward maximum industry.

Fusion Plants

All populated planets of any empire completing research on this technology will receive a +3 bonus toward maximum industry.

Orbital Infrastructure

All populated planets of any empire completing research on this technology will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum construction.

Subterranean Construction

All populated planets of any empire completing research on this technology will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum construction.

Colonial Economics

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, with a primary focus on trade, will receive a + 3 bonus toward maximum trading.

Etheral Economics.

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, with a primary focus on trade, will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum trade;.and a -2 decrease toward maximum construction.

Fleet Logistics

All planets of any empire completing research on this technology will receive a +5 bonus toward maximum supply.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: better tech descriptions

#27 Post by Geoff the Medio »

yoshi wrote:why shouldnt it be your empire for effects that effect your empire.
"your" = "the player's" since the player is reading the text. But what happens if an enemy empire (not the player) researches the tech? The enemy's planets will be affected, which are not "the player's" planets, making the text misleading. If we had techs that affected only "the player", then "your" would apply, but we don't, and it doesn't.
Sandlapper wrote:All planets of any empire completing research on this technology, that have a primary focus on science, will...
This seems a bit awkward beacuse "any empire completing research on this technology" is so long and separates the original mention of the planet with the stuff about its focus... I don't really have a better suggestion, though...

edit: perhaps, when there are multiple effects:

For any empire that has researched or acquired this technology,
Planets that empire owns with primary focus on science receive...
Planets that empire owns with secondary focus...

and/or when there is only one effect:

For any empire that knows this technology, terran planets that empire owns receive...

yoshi
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Re: better tech descriptions

#28 Post by yoshi »

except we do have techs and lots and lots of buildings that only effects the builders empire. and as said where effects bleed into other empires we can write that in too. and if the enemy is also a player then he will read "your empire" meaning his empire and not his enemies as well. so both players see that the tech they are researching effects either only thier empire only thier enemies or both as it is written in the tech or building description in plain english

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: better tech descriptions

#29 Post by Geoff the Medio »

You seem to be missing the point...
yoshi wrote:if the enemy is also a player then he will read "your empire" meaning his empire and not his enemies as well. so both players see that the tech they are researching effects either only thier empire only thier enemies or both as it is written in the tech or building description in plain english
Players can look at techs they are not or have not yet researched, including techs that other empires, which may or may not be human players (this is irrelivant), have researched, or which no empire has researched. "your empire" only works if the tech is being researched or has been researched by the player who is reading the text, and the text can be read regardless of whether the tech is being researched by anyone, including the human player reading the text.

In particular, if an AI empire researches the tech, and the player discovers this, and the player reads the text and is informed by the text about what is supposedly happening to the player's empire (ie. "your empire") when this is not the case, because the tech has not been researched by the player's empire.

Again: If an enemy empire researches a tech which affect only the researching empire's planets, then the player's (your) planets will not be affected, and the tech description should not say "your planets" which means "the player's planets" because those planets are not affected by the tech.
yoshi wrote:except we do have techs and lots and lots of buildings that only effects the builders empire.
For techs we could write "the researcher", which means "the researching empire".

For buildings, we could write "the owner" which means "the empire that owns the building". We can't write "the builder" because a building might be captured or given away to an empire that didn't build it.

Neither of these can be replaced by "your empire" because "the builder" and "the researcher" are not always "the player".

yoshi
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Re: better tech descriptions

#30 Post by yoshi »

Bio Terror Lab

The planet this building is built on will recieve a -2 to max health


Bio Terror Projector

All planets owned by the owner of this building within 2 jump of the Projector recieve a -1 to max health.
All planets not owned by the owner of this building within 2 jumps of the projector get a -4 to max health as long as you also posess a Bio Terror Lab


Autolab Control

All planets in the owners empire will gbe effected as follows

Planets with a primary focus on research will recieve a +2 to research and a -2 to max health
Planets with a secondary focus on research will recieve a +1 to research and a -1 to max health


Autofactory Control

All planets in the owners empire will be effected as follows.

Planets with a primary focus on industry will recieve a +2 to max industry.
Planets with a secondary fucos on industry will recieve a +1 to max industry.


Automatic Theorum Prover

All planets in the owners empire will be effected as follows.

Planets with a primary focus on research will recieve a + 5 to research.
Planets with a secondary focus on research will recieve a +2 to max research.


Light House

This tech doesnt do anything yet. in the future it may increase intersteallr flight speeds around it


Heavy Mining Processor

All planets of environmental rating of Barren Toxic Inferno or Radiated and with a primary focus of Mining
And that is within a radius of 100 of the planet the heavy mining processor is built on will recieve a +5 to max mining

The planet that the Heavy mining processor will also recieve a -5 to max farming and a +2 to minimum farming



Industrial Center(this one is going to be rough and refinements on this one will be very apreciated)

All planets with a primary focus on industry and within a 100 radius of of the planet this is built on will recieve a +5 to max industry.

If the player has the level 2 refinement of this technology planets withing a 200 radius of the planet this is built and with a primary focus on industry on will recieve a +6 to max industry.

If the player has the level 3 refinement of this technology all planets with a primary focus on industry and within a 300 radius of the planet with this building will recieve a +7 to max industry


Asteroid Mining

This can only be built in a system with one or more asteroid belts in it.
Any of your planets within the system this is built and with a primary focus on mining will recieve a +4 to max mining. If you have the level 2 refinement of this technology planets in the owners empire in a system with an asteroid belt will recieve a +8 to max mining


Megalith

The planet this is built on will recieve a +1 to max population as long as it also has a minimum industry of 30
Planets within 1 jump of the planet this is built on will also recieve a +1 to max population as long as they have a minimum industry of 30
All neighbouring planets will also recieve a +3 to max construction (the definition of neighbouring planets needs clarifying)


Collective Thought Netowork.

Once built All planets in the owners empire with a primary focus on research will be effected as follows.

+3 to max research
+3 to max trade
-3 to max industry
-3 to max farming


Genome Bank

Once built all planets in the owners empire will be effected as follows.
+2 to max Health
+1 to max Farming
+1 to max Research


Artificial Gravity Wells.

All planets in the system this is built in owned by you and with population will be effected as follows.
+2 to max industry
+2 to max construction
+1 to max trade


Planetary Rings

The planet this is built on is effected as follows
+3 to max population.
+1 to max construction
+3 to max trade
-5 to max farming


Space Elevator

The planet this is built on will recieve a +2 to max trade if it has either a primary or secondary focus on trade.


Comm Union (not sure what this is short for at the moment)

All planets in the owners empire with population and a primary focus on trade will recieve a +5 to max trade.


Deep Green

All planets in the owners empire with population on them will recieve a +2 to max trade.


Paradise Planet

The planet this is built on will recieve the following as long as it also has a primary focus on trade.
+5 to max trade.
-5 to max mining.
-5 to max industry.
All planets owned by you within 1 jump of a paradise planet owned by you will recieve a +2 to max health as long as they are populated.


Caducean institute(i know it is spelt wrong but it is how it is spelt in the txt)

All planets in the owners empire wityh population on them will recieve a +2 to max health.


The Living Planet

The planet this is built on will recieve a +5 to max farming and a +5 to max health. Max industry will be set to 0, Max mining will also be set to 0.
All other planets in the owners empire with population and a primary focus on research will recieve a +2 to research


Orbital Gardens

The planet this is built on will be effected as follows as long as the planets primary focus is trade.
+5 to max trade.
+2 to max farming.
All other planets with population on them will recoeve a +2 to max farming.


Enclave of the void

Once built all planets owned by you with a primary and or secondary focus on research will be effected as follows.
+5 to max research, and max industry will will be set to 10.


The looking Glass(i am sure that this tech gives a +5 for each focus both primary and secondary so if you have both focusing on trade or research you will get a +10 but i cant think of a non wordy way to put this down)

All planets in the owners empire with population and a primary and or secondary focus on research will be effected as follows.
max research +3
All planets in the owners empire with population and a primary and or secondary focus on trade will be effected as follows.
+5 to max trade


Monument to Exodus

All planets in the owners empire with a max population of 5 get a +10 to max health.


Psi Corps

All planets in the owners empire with a primary focus on research get a bonus to max research equal to the population on that planet / 5.


Artificial Black Hole.

All planets within 1 jump of the system the blackhole is built and with population on them and with a primary focus on industry will recieve a +6 to max industry.


Hyperspatial Dam

All planets with a radius of 50 from the system the damn is built in with population on them and a primary focus of industry will recieve a +10 to max industry.
Any planets with population on them in a system within 30 of the damn that does not orbit a blackhole will recieve a -5 to health.


Miniature Sun

All planets in the system that the sun is built in with population on them recieve a +4 to max industry.


Economic Sinkhole

All planets within a radius of 75 from the planet this is built on recieve a -10 to max trade
Last edited by yoshi on Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:57 am, edited 4 times in total.

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