Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

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Vezzra
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Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#1 Post by Vezzra »

This is the topics thread for our next online voice chat meeting on Tuesday, October 4th 2022.

Please post suggestions for topics and discuss them here.

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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#2 Post by Ophiuchus »

we should fix the supply issues with allied supply. there are multiple ones and maybe can be solved with a single solution:

here is what i am aware of
  • one turn wrong effects on colonisation (out of own supply)
  • multiple empires per system do not really work
  • planet may cut off allied supply. e.g. a zero-supply colony next to a high-supply allied system cutting off an asymetric supply connection (e.g. a 4-supply system would reach 4 hops, but only works up to the first allied colony)
also the question if this should go in after 0.5

multi-allied-supply
BlueAward wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:50 am Also there's this other thread about supply connection through 2 empires, I would expect this to actually work if the other two empires are allied to themselves as well. Especially relevant in a team of 3+ people per team, where everybody within the team is in alliance to everybody else in that team by design
if remember correctly, also A1 and A3 do not connect in the following setup: A1 - B - A2 - C - A3. But it should connect if A+B and A+C are allies. I also does not work if all ABC are mutual allies.

and supply-propagation-being-cut-off-by-ally:
Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:46 am and we have another weirdness where there should be a supply connection by two allies to one system but it is disconnected from one side.

so system A is in empire A supply, system B 1-hop away is in empire B supply. system A has supply propagation 1. system B has supply propagation 0.

empire A and empire B are allies. system A should have a supply connection to system B, but it has not.
and some (in)determinism concerning enemy supply with equal values
wobbly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:33 am There's also weirdness between enemies. MP 21st, turn 43. My 1 supply outpost is beating o01eg's 1 supply outpost. (Trixie y and Jera delta)
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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#3 Post by Ophiuchus »

Another topic may be detection and (planetary) stealth.
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LienRag
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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#4 Post by LienRag »

Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:13 am [*]planet may cut off allied supply. e.g. a zero-supply colony next to a high-supply allied system cutting off an asymetric supply connection (e.g. a 4-supply system would reach 4 hops, but only works up to the first allied colony)
Not sure if that's a bug or a feature. I mean, there's some logic about why things would work that way : Alliance is not fusion of Empire, and in Highlander-style diplomacy allied Empires are still ultimately enemies.

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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#5 Post by Vezzra »

LienRag wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:11 amNot sure if that's a bug or a feature.
As the devs we are in the unique position of having the authority to make that decision. :mrgreen:

@Ophiuchus, I hope you will be able to attend. Because as I see it, the important part of the discussion will be how we want allied supply to work, and coming to a consensus/decision how we want to handle the cases you described.

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LienRag
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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#6 Post by LienRag »

Vezzra wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:03 amAs the devs we are in the unique position of having the authority to make that decision. :mrgreen:

Sure. I just want to help you make an informed decision.
Isn't it why this forum exists ?

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Vezzra
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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#7 Post by Vezzra »

LienRag wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:00 amSure. I just want to help you make an informed decision.
Isn't it why this forum exists ?
Of course. My point was merely that we have yet to figure out the answer to the "bug or feature" question, so currently there is none. ;)

However, concerning this particular case, keep in mind that only very rudimentary placeholder diplomacy mechanics are in place now. Which means whatever solution we will come up with will be aimed at making only the most basic diplomacy play work.

I very much do hope that once we get to design and implement proper fleshed out diplomacy, this question will not require an either-or answer, but make both variants viable options. So you can decide how close an alliance should be: Do we want to form a closely nit federation (like the Federation in the Star Trek universe), which would be closer to a "fusion of empires", or prefer a more loose alliance, where the members are still more in competition with each other, which would be more what you described as "Highlander-style diplomacy allied Empires".

But that's quite far off in the future at this point...

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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#8 Post by Grummel7 »

I think we should go over the list of issue in the milestone and discuss what to do about them.
I suspect that if we simply wait for the list to get smaller, we will never get a new release ;-)

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#9 Post by Geoff the Medio »

contributor credits update

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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#10 Post by Ophiuchus »

Last edited by Ophiuchus on Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#11 Post by Ophiuchus »

overall design idea of allied supply lines:

you can use them as if they are your own -> your planets in a system where an ally has won the supply should be able to use those

there is no reason to ever want allied supply to be cut off -> so biggest allied supply should win, your military ships should also not cut it off

(actually in a mixed alliance situation it may make sense to cut of another ally C, because you want to prioritize ally B; but basically it is ok to say the higher supply wins)
Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:13 am one turn wrong effects on colonisation (out of own supply)
dunno

probably i should reread (Maybe) Bug: supply connection in FOCS and PP distribution differ
Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:13 am multiple empires per system do not really work
they should; implementation idea: planets there should get there own supply group and then get merged
Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:13 am planet may cut off allied supply. e.g. a zero-supply colony next to a high-supply allied system cutting off an asymetric supply connection (e.g. a 4-supply system would reach 4 hops, but only works up to the first allied colony)
should not be cut off, the higher allied supply should propagate
Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:13 am multi-allied-supply
multiple empire-hops should work, only depending on your relation to those empires

Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:46 am and we have another weirdness where there should be a supply connection by two allies to one system but it is disconnected from one side.

so system A is in empire A supply, system B 1-hop away is in empire B supply. system A has supply propagation 1. system B has supply propagation 0.

empire A and empire B are allies. system A should have a supply connection to system B, but it has not.
should be connected
Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:13 am and some (in)determinism concerning enemy supply with equal values
wobbly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:33 am There's also weirdness between enemies. MP 21st, turn 43. My 1 supply outpost is beating o01eg's 1 supply outpost. (Trixie y and Jera delta)
supply.cpp#460 there is some tie breaking stuff (bonus from colonies, outpost, multiple sources of supply...)
so most probably that was deterministic in a good way

we will document the tie breaker conditions somewhere in pedia
Last edited by Ophiuchus on Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#12 Post by Ophiuchus »

concerning planetary stealth - the balance should be "restored", for 0.5 no new mechanics (i.e. no persistent stealth effects via meters or specials)
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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#13 Post by Cjkjvfnby »

Maybe shift the creation of the monthly thread a bit and create it after the meeting?

The topic for the next meeting:
Add the next release tag (0.5.1 or 0.6). Since 0.5 is already in progress we could put tags on things that will not go to that release.
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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#14 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Cjkjvfnby wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:14 amMaybe shift the creation of the monthly thread a bit and create it after the meeting?
How would that be useful for collecting topics to discuss in the meeting?

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Re: Topics for online voice chat meeting October 4th 2022

#15 Post by Cjkjvfnby »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:55 am
Cjkjvfnby wrote: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:14 amMaybe shift the creation of the monthly thread a bit and create it after the meeting?
How would that be useful for collecting topics to discuss in the meeting?
Creating a topic for the next meeting after the end of it. So at any time, it would be possible to add notes to it.
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