Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

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Vezzra
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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#16 Post by Vezzra »

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:30 pmThe in-game start screen. Where you start games etc.
A release announcement on the in-game start screen? I'm a bit confused about how that's supposed to work - to see that announcement, you already have to have the new release. And the old release won't have that announcement.

So I'm not sure what exactly you want:

a) Are you asking for a feature that checks for new releases and presents the user a notification on the start screen whenever an update is available?

b) Or do you want a feature that checks if the installation has been just updated (by an automatic update mechanism e.g. like snap) and displays a notification on the start screen to inform the user that an update has happened?

Both options make sense to me.
Default branch should point to same release as latest/stable, but the branch is sticky. So if you install "stable" branch (i.e. default/stable) you get the latest version. And if the latest base version (e.g. 0.5.1 instead of 0.5.0) changes you would still have "your" version (e.g 0.5.0).
Ah yes, that makes sense. Nifty feature! :D
As a debian user this is what I expect when installing "stable". If i want it to be rolling I install latest/stable instead.
Agreed.

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adrian_broher
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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#17 Post by adrian_broher »

> Both options make sense to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

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Vezzra
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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#18 Post by Vezzra »

adrian_broher wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:51 amDon't make decisions you WILL regret later.
Why do you think that? Neither feature seems particularly big or impactful enough to have the potential of messing things up so badly that would warrant a reaction similar to the guy in that youtube video ;)

Checking for more recent versions is a feature present in a lot of software, the worst thing that can happen is you break the feature when, for whatever reason, you have to give up/change the URL the feature is checking for updates. Not ideal, but no reason for agonizing regret.

Checking if the installation has been updated and displaying a notification about that also looks pretty innocent in my eyes.

But maybe I'm missing something obvious?

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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#19 Post by defaultuser »

If either of those are implemented, I certainly hope there would be an option to disable. I hate nagware and really hate auto-update.

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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#20 Post by Ophiuchus »

I thought of doing something more static. I would also not like the game to call home somewhere - such a thing should be opt-in.

Prominently showing release notes/announcement and more prominently showing build/publication date can be baked into the build and does not need anything external.

If the default stable version changes i could repush the old version with an extra note ("2022-02-02 Newer stable version of freeorion (link to snapcraft info page) available! Switch the snap channel to the newer version for lots of goodness.")
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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#21 Post by Vezzra »

defaultuser wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:44 pm If either of those are implemented, I certainly hope there would be an option to disable. I hate nagware and really hate auto-update.
A check for available updates feature would of course have to be optional.

The other feature (option b in my post above) isn't a auto-update feature, but a check if an external auto-update mechanism has updated FO and just informs the user if an update has been applied. The example being if you install FO via the "latest/stable" channel on snapcraft.io. According to Ophiuchus "latest/stable" installs are supposed to auto-update. Users who do not want that won't use the "latest/stable" channel, but the ones provided for specific releases, or "default".

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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#22 Post by Ophiuchus »

I had a look at the user metrics for the freeorion snap.
Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:30 pmDefault branch should point to same release as latest/stable, but the branch is sticky. So if you install "stable" branch (i.e. default/stable) you get the latest version. And if the latest base version (e.g. 0.5.1 instead of 0.5.0) changes you would still have "your" version (e.g 0.5.0). ... As a debian user this is what I expect when installing "stable". If i want it to be rolling I install latest/stable instead.
A while after 0.4.9 was released i made the v0.4.9 sticky, i.e. if you installed the snap before without specifying a channel the people would follow the default/stable channel. If you installed the snap afterwards you installed v0.4.9/stable channel.

So basically all users converted from 0.4.8 to 0.4.9 automatically. Now we released 0.4.10 and also 0.4.10/stable is sticky.

So, i checked now user conversion as far as I can through the snapcraft.io homepage. It looks like there was about the same number of installs which converted automatically from 0.4.9 to 0.4.10 (200 on 27th July, 300 on 2nd Aug, at 360 on 18th Aug) like it was from 0.4.8 to 0.4.9 (~340 installs). There are about 340 installs following 0.4.9/stable and 220 installs following stable.

I think that means maximum a third of users switched to 0.4.10 and probably a huge part of the 0.4.9 installs would prefer to switch to 0.4.10 (?)

So I intend to publish a new snap for 0.4.9/stable when 0.4.10.1 gets out. I imagine manually fixing up the start screen with snap channel information and the info that a newer version is available and one can switch to it using snap refresh. Any suggestions? Maybe I should also include a reference to https://www.freeorion.org/forum ?
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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#23 Post by LienRag »

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:30 pm
Default branch should point to same release as latest/stable, but the branch is sticky. So if you install "stable" branch (i.e. default/stable) you get the latest version. And if the latest base version (e.g. 0.5.1 instead of 0.5.0) changes you would still have "your" version (e.g 0.5.0).

As a debian user this is what I expect when installing "stable". If i want it to be rolling I install latest/stable instead.
Another Debian user abides.

This should be made very clear on the snap page, though.
Or could you add a warning window (with the usual "show me next time - yes/no" button) on game start specifically for the snap-packaged game ?

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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#24 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:46 am This should be made very clear on the snap page, though.
Have a look: https://snapcraft.io/freeorion
LienRag wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:46 am Or could you add a warning window (with the usual "show me next time - yes/no" button) on game start specifically for the snap-packaged game ?
I really hate our UI framework and also hate modal dialogues so I rather not add a modal to the start screen.

And if i would do that it should not be something specific about the snap-packaging, so what would we put there for a downloaded release build, for a development build, for a debian build etc.?

Also i do not know where to add such packaging specific info. E.g. something like a packaging.yml generated/copied from a e.g. snap-weekly-packaging.yml?
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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#25 Post by LienRag »

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:37 am
LienRag wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:46 am This should be made very clear on the snap page, though.
Have a look: https://snapcraft.io/freeorion
Now that I had your explanations here and the Debian/rolling release comparison, I understand clearly what's on the snapcraft page.
As a beginner, I doubt that I would, though.

(actually I'm still fuzzy on how to follow different channels)
Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:37 am
LienRag wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:46 am Or could you add a warning window (with the usual "show me next time - yes/no" button) on game start specifically for the snap-packaged game ?
I really hate our UI framework and also hate modal dialogues so I rather not add a modal to the start screen.

And if i would do that it should not be something specific about the snap-packaging, so what would we put there for a downloaded release build, for a development build, for a debian build etc.?
At least a warning somewhere on the start screen that can be disabled in the options...

It's a snap-specific problem, so I don't see the need to have anything on other builds.

If you insist there may be a warning on Debian builds that the version may be old and current ones could be compiled from source (or, for those lost to the Debian philosophy, install it from Snap).

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:37 am Also i do not know where to add such packaging specific info. E.g. something like a packaging.yml generated/copied from a e.g. snap-weekly-packaging.yml?
No idea there, sorry - I don't do Snap and have very little experience with yaml.

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Re: Snap distribution for 0.4.8, 0.4.9 and in future

#26 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:20 pm Now that I had your explanations here and the Debian/rolling release comparison, I understand clearly what's on the snapcraft page.
As a beginner, I doubt that I would, though.
Suggestions welcome.
LienRag wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:20 pm (actually I'm still fuzzy on how to follow different channels)
Usually you do not need to. If you want to you have to enable that feature via snap command line/configuration. And then say `snap install freeorion_blabla --channel=0.4.10/stable` then you can simply start that freeorion version with `freeorion_blabla` (maybe use 000410 or whatever works for you instead of blabla ;) )
LienRag wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:20 pmIt's a snap-specific problem, so I don't see the need to have anything on other builds.
Well at least there is now also flatplak. hooray :) . Didnt have the a detailed look at it (e.g. there are lua dependencies in there (why?)), but could be better suited to distributing the game (does not need root access to install).
Not sure if the redhat guy is on the forums though.
We could add something to the downloadable build like: "A year has passed since this version of freeorion was released, the freeorion project probably has released a newer version with significant improvements. [link-to-something]".
LienRag wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:20 pm If you insist there may be a warning on Debian builds that the version may be old and current ones could be compiled from source (or, for those lost to the Debian philosophy, install it from Snap).
So first, building a new freeorion on an old debian system will probably not work at all (because of dependencies). Second, telling about other ways to run newer versions would be probably ok, but rather via a link to a maintained wiki page. Third we could generally issue a "deprecation-build" when we release a newer version (e.g. now we would be repackaging 0.4.9, adding the info that a newer release is actually available), which also the maintainers could use to inform their users according to their policies.

Fourth this shouldnt read as a warning, but as a useful information.
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