Hi there folks,
I would like to inform you all there's a new project in the making to create SDL-based GPLv2 engine re-implementation (based on C) of the original MoO. It is called project 1oom, and the good news is that the engine is already feature complete, making the game fully playable!
You may find more info and download the latest builds here:
Homepage
Git
Right now the project is in need of people to playtest the hell out of it. The developer also does all of his work from Gentoo, so anyone willing to provide windows and linux packages (preferably Snap) would be of great help!
Project 1oom - Master of Orion 1 reverse engineered
Moderator: Oberlus
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- Space Krill
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 5:50 pm
Re: Project 1oom - Master of Orion 1 reverse engineered
Hmm, so you are relying on their LBX files, which provide a lot (all?) of the actual game content? I suppose that's why on the single screenshot posted, your software is describing itself as being presented by the original developers/producers Microprose and Simtex?
Details like that in conjunction with your current descriptions of this as a "clone" will likely make this look a lot more like a copyright violation than any legit reverse engineering to the current owners of the IP, who have an ongoing commercial interest in the product, such as via Steam.
When they send a DMCA takedown notice to Github, I suspect there is currently a pretty big chance Github would just jump directly to the disable all access step.
But the reliance on their LBX files might also be a path to salvation for you. If you can fairly characterize your code as something like an execution/display harness to allow people to run their licensed original copies of the program on modern platforms, (and update all of your descriptions to emphasize this point of view) then you might have a chance to survive the takedown notice.
Details like that in conjunction with your current descriptions of this as a "clone" will likely make this look a lot more like a copyright violation than any legit reverse engineering to the current owners of the IP, who have an ongoing commercial interest in the product, such as via Steam.
When they send a DMCA takedown notice to Github, I suspect there is currently a pretty big chance Github would just jump directly to the disable all access step.
But the reliance on their LBX files might also be a path to salvation for you. If you can fairly characterize your code as something like an execution/display harness to allow people to run their licensed original copies of the program on modern platforms, (and update all of your descriptions to emphasize this point of view) then you might have a chance to survive the takedown notice.
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0
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- Space Krill
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 5:50 pm
Re: Project 1oom - Master of Orion 1 reverse engineered
First of all, this is not my project. I'm simply trying to give a hand with PR to the guy behind it.
Second, engine reimplementations are not clones, but as long as the original game files are not provided and still require an original copy, creating an engine husk that simply makes them work has absolutely nothing illegal about it, since it distributes no copyrighted content whatsoever and can be repurposed easily to work with uncopyrighted one. There are, in fact, hundreds of engine reimplementations available for free, SCUMMVM and Chocolate Doom being popular ones, for example, that work pretty much in the exact same way as 1oom.
Second, engine reimplementations are not clones, but as long as the original game files are not provided and still require an original copy, creating an engine husk that simply makes them work has absolutely nothing illegal about it, since it distributes no copyrighted content whatsoever and can be repurposed easily to work with uncopyrighted one. There are, in fact, hundreds of engine reimplementations available for free, SCUMMVM and Chocolate Doom being popular ones, for example, that work pretty much in the exact same way as 1oom.
Re: Project 1oom - Master of Orion 1 reverse engineered
ledarkmemer wrote:Second, engine reimplementations are not clones
That and similar statements peppered throughout the docs, especially in conjunction with the only screenshot saying that the game is being presented by Microprose, makes the project look more problematic and are why I was suggesting that the description/documentation be changed.https://github.com/KilgoreTroutMaskReplicant/1oom description wrote:1oom is a clone of the classic DOS game "Master of Orion" (MicroProse, 1993)
I'm not familiar with SCUMMVM, and Doom is a special case since it's engine source code was published under the GPL in the late 90s. Also, the issue is not so simple as just whether or not one is distributing copyrighted content. But like I said, there are arguments that can be made along the lines you mention; it just helps to consistently describe the project in the most defensible fashion....creating an engine husk that simply makes them work has absolutely nothing illegal about it, since it distributes no copyrighted content whatsoever and can be repurposed easily to work with uncopyrighted one. There are, in fact, hundreds of engine reimplementations available for free, SCUMMVM and Chocolate Doom being popular ones
If it's not your project at all then I guess it's not your problem. But since you have an interest you might want to submit a PR to it to help them present things better.
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0
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- Space Krill
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 5:50 pm
Re: Project 1oom - Master of Orion 1 reverse engineered
Thanks for the note. Mind that the first alpha was only released days ago and not all documentation is in place yet. As for the nomenclature itself, I prefer to use the term engine re-implementation, but other developers favor for instance "engine clone" or "engine rebuild". Calling it simply a clone is not entirely incorrect either though, since the package itself does not provide the original game files and could have free artwork fitted into it.Dilvish wrote:That and similar statements peppered throughout the docs, especially in conjunction with the only screenshot saying that the game is being presented by Microprose, makes the project look more problematic and are why I was suggesting that the description/documentation be changed.
This project is no different from such other projects as SCUMMVM, OpenXcom, OpenMW, OpenRA, Wargus, to cite a few. To make things clear 1oom is an engine re-implementation for running an old game in modern systems more smoothly. It requires the original game files that can be purchased legally on GoG. There is nothing illegal about making an engine to run proprietary game files as long as you do not distribute those copyrighted game files yourself. While arguments can certainly be made against it, it is commonplace for them not to pose a legal issue, much like emulators.Dilvish wrote:I'm not familiar with SCUMMVM, and Doom is a special case since it's engine source code was published under the GPL in the late 90s. Also, the issue is not so simple as just whether or not one is distributing copyrighted content. But like I said, there are arguments that can be made along the lines you mention; it just helps to consistently describe the project in the most defensible fashion.
Will do, but hey, since you're also interested in it, why not submit a ticket on github and have a look at the code?Dilvish wrote:If it's not your project at all then I guess it's not your problem. But since you have an interest you might want to submit a PR to it to help them present things better.
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- Space Krill
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:43 am
Re: Project 1oom - Master of Orion 1 reverse engineered
Heh, how did this get here? When I tried to announce the project, I was met with:
Remember the MOO1 intro sequence? The screenshot contains a textual interpretation of that for the command line UI. Now that you point it out, it does seem to misrepresent the origin. I'll remove it and change the screenshot.
... which is understandable given the shaky legal ground 1oom treads upon.The Management wrote:You are receiving this notification because your topic "Reversing to Orion - project 1oom" at "FreeOrion" was disapproved by a moderator or administrator.
The following reason was given for the disapproval:
The message contains links to illegal or pirated software.
All except the shorter strings ("Next turn", "The colony has been destroyed!" etc) and smaller data tables.Dilvish wrote:Hmm, so you are relying on their LBX files, which provide a lot (all?) of the actual game content?
There are three screenshots. The one you mention is the third.Dilvish wrote:I suppose that's why on the single screenshot posted, your software is describing itself as being presented by the original developers/producers Microprose and Simtex?
Remember the MOO1 intro sequence? The screenshot contains a textual interpretation of that for the command line UI. Now that you point it out, it does seem to misrepresent the origin. I'll remove it and change the screenshot.
"Clone" may be a poorly chosen description. It is a clone of the engine in the sense that it works as replacement for the original EXEs. Got any better word in mind?Dilvish wrote:Details like that in conjunction with your current descriptions of this as a "clone" will likely make this look a lot more like a copyright violation than any legit reverse engineering to the current owners of the IP, who have an ongoing commercial interest in the product, such as via Steam.
I agree. In case that happens, I will continue the project via other avenues. The first announcement had a tinyupload link to a tarball.Dilvish wrote:When they send a DMCA takedown notice to Github, I suspect there is currently a pretty big chance Github would just jump directly to the disable all access step.
Updated descriptions would be most welcome. I am neither a native speaker nor USA citizen so generating quasi-legalese for copyright strike avoidance is not a skill I'm well versed in.Dilvish wrote:But the reliance on their LBX files might also be a path to salvation for you. If you can fairly characterize your code as something like an execution/display harness to allow people to run their licensed original copies of the program on modern platforms, (and update all of your descriptions to emphasize this point of view) then you might have a chance to survive the takedown notice.
- Geoff the Medio
- Programming, Design, Admin
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Re: Project 1oom - Master of Orion 1 reverse engineered
"Game Engine Recreation" seems to be the established term.Kilgore Replicant wrote:"Clone" may be a poorly chosen description. It is a clone of the engine in the sense that it works as replacement for the original EXEs. Got any better word in mind?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... ecreations
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- Space Krill
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:43 am
Re: Project 1oom - Master of Orion 1 reverse engineered
Changed all mentions of clone to that. Also replaced names of dead companies with "dead companies" in the text intro and screenshot. Thanks for the suggestions!Geoff the Medio wrote:"Game Engine Recreation" seems to be the established term.Kilgore Replicant wrote:"Clone" may be a poorly chosen description. It is a clone of the engine in the sense that it works as replacement for the original EXEs. Got any better word in mind?