Notes on v0.4.2

[markpi]

hi,
egassem description is incomplete : they have great ground troops

i would like the capital name to reflect the actual ai setting of the civ, not just correspond to the max ai setting
( i take that back if all ais are on same setting now )
colony & outpost ships shouldn´t be put together in a fleet by default
pop of a planet should sink when u finish a colony ship - generating pop by cranking out cryonic pods wouldn´t be that easy

was there a change in battle mechanics ? lost more ships in an hour than in a whole game before^^
one battle: 5 ships, 74 attack, 49 structure, 40 shield ( 1 scout ) against 3 ships ( 2 scouts included ) with
24 attack, 21 structure, no shields : i barely survived with a single organic3 with 4 hit points
a single griffon 1-6 ( 24 attack ) took away 69 shields af a 16 ship 590 attack fleet
( i suspect hidden ships )
same fleet i fight 15 ships with 200 attack shield damage 21 ! sorry whats that ?

some roughly equal fights may end up with one party loosing not a single ship
i replayed a fight, involving ~ 10 ships on either side, with adding just one ship - a complete desaster changed to a great victory
i think this could be a bit more "both loose something", no matter who actually wins this . as it is trades are something unpredictable

i see frequently fleets like this

turning around in space without touching the initial target ( look at the fuel left xD)

can´t recommend playing maniacal unless u want an easy game - number of failed civs
( with less than 100 pp and 30 rp after round 100 ) seems significantly higher
i just test games with 30 systems/ai, with 20 i´m more busy at start, but most ais end up in cramped positions,
the dominating civs still unable to break the defenses of the "only capital" civs till turn 100+
as they have still have problems with monsters : monsters & specials low, planet density high

didn´t scout a single endomorphic in the galaxy at turn 150 - they stuck at organics very long even if they got
xenocoordination facility - they don´t build static hulls at all and never shield
in earlier versions i sometimes saw endomorphics before turn 100 ( wyvern )

i saw this ggg :

Cynos don´t have industry focus^^
which may have served better here :


i watched these troops staying not taking the minor for at least 30+ turns :

and i guess everybody has noticed cis with just dead colonies
( played same game on aggressive - ehwaz was taken from the same civ )

i would like a setting where i don´t have beginner ai´s in the mix

i play with a pp/rp rato of 1 ~ up to move 25 shifting it to 2-3 for the rest of the game
( as pp become more useful with a few tecs developed )
most ais end way too pp heavy

static defenses are overrated by ai - a nice fleet ( + scouting + placement ) is best defense xD
whole tech tree for endomorphic hull is cheaper than planetary barrier shield

5771 turn 160 i scout 1 civ ( humans ) producing wyverns rest stuck on organics
i notice a nice contentration of forces, however they fail to step back when my reinforcenents arrive ( though they have scout )
played cautios - etty almost eaten up by surrounding civs, rest reasonable good spreading
scouted system with ggg and asteroid outpost on research ( acirema )

though this may sound very critical, best version ever, get ur release soon !

[Dilvish]

i would like the capital name to reflect the actual ai setting of the civ, not just correspond to the max ai setting

what you ask for here has always been the case since the AIs started renaming their starting capitol.

( i take that back if all ais are on same setting now )

not quite, they are about 75% max and 25% one step below that

colony & outpost ships shouldn´t be put together in a fleet by default

newly constructed ships get grouped into fleets by Design, so even different versions of a colony ship will go into different fleets; perhaps you dragged and dropped without realizing

...lost more ships ...( i suspect hidden ships )

sounds like a good suspicion

some roughly equal fights may end up with one party loosing not a single ship

the current level of randomness is in line with what the leads want.

i see frequently fleets like this

Even following the image links and using their zoom feature, the various pics you posted here were still a tad too small for me to make out what you were referring to.

xenocoordination facility - they don´t build static hulls at all and never shield

yes and no -- I stopped having them use static hulls a while back, and am considering adding them back into their mix since endomorphic takes so much longer to research now, but they'll use shields as soon as they research them. They don't use Grids much.

- number of failed civs ( with less than 100 pp and 30 rp after round 100 ) seems significantly higher

with the current game dynamics not many AIs get to the cutoff you set. I'm of course still working on it, but there are a lot of other things calling for my time as well. I think you can get more challenge from the AIs by player a smaller galaxy -- around 12 stars per empire and medium planet density. Either way you're likely to do better than them, but giving yourself more time before having to deal with them makes it that much easier for you.

[AndrewW]

colony & outpost ships shouldn´t be put together in a fleet by default

newly constructed ships get grouped into fleets by Design, so even different versions of a colony ship will go into different fleets; perhaps you dragged and dropped without realizing

I've been seeing colony ships in a separate fleet, not grouped in with warships.

xenocoordination facility - they don´t build static hulls at all and never shield

yes and no -- I stopped having them use static hulls a while back, and am considering adding them back into their mix since endomorphic takes so much longer to research now, but they'll use shields as soon as they research them. They don't use Grids much.

I've been seeing some use of shields.

[markpi]

hi, so far i´ve only noticed civs of the max level ( and scouted a lot in different games )
thats why i was confused of how it works now
got better photo of the fleet that turns around in space

of course colony ships are in a seperate fleet but as it makes no sense to send 2 colonyships into the same system
( i would send 1 and let it build a colony pod if 2 planets were suitable in the same system )
i would prefer them to be split up by default

[Geoff the Medio]

was there a change in battle mechanics ?

Since when? Battle mechanics does change occasionally...

i think this could be a bit more "both loose something", no matter who actually wins this . as it is trades are something unpredictable

The result is random. With larger fleets, the results should be less random due to averaging. If the fleets are reasonabl large and are evenly matched, then on average there should be damage done to the winning side. What you consider evenly matched may not be, however; stealth, detection, number of weapons vs. total weapon strength, and ship structure ratios do matter.

[Dilvish]

got better photo of the fleet that turns around in space

well, what's the issue with it? after sending the fleet to Ascela, apparently the AI changed its mind before it arrived and gave it orders to go back. If your fleets at Ascela had just arrived that turn they wouldn't engage it in combat in that case even if yours were on aggressive. If (i) your fleets were armed and (ii) on aggressive and (iii) arrived previous to the turn where the AI fleet zipped in and out of Ascella, and (iv) there was no combat, then I don't know is happening. If any of those four conditions/results was different then the pic makes total sense to me.

of course colony ships are in a seperate fleet but as it makes no sense to send 2 colonyships into the same system ...
i would prefer them to be split up by default

The grouping newly constructed ships into fleets according to design was done to help manage potentially large numbers of ships, of potentially multiple types, being completed at the same spot on the same turn. Such fleets, no matter what their composition, will often be split up to send parts to different destinations. Your logic would appear to apply the same to scouts and outposts, but I think most people find it organizationally very helpful to have them all start out clearly grouped.

[MiniMe]

Two minor issues with 5771:

1. I got psycho dominated while passing that deep space with my troop ships. They are now stuck, as seen in the screenshot.
This also happend last game when passing (not stopping) a system while getting psycho dominated.

2. Phinnert cannot produce ships, nevertheless AI built all those ship-related buildings.

[Dilvish]

2. Phinnert cannot produce ships, nevertheless AI built all those ship-related buildings.

Ah, that's triggered by them having the "CanColonize" flag; the AI doesn't currently even have access to the "Can Produce Ships" flag. Although the future of this split characteristic of the Phinnert is in question I think, until it changes I suppose we should go ahead and give the AI access to the ship building flag so it can avoid this kind of wasted construction.

[eleazar]

it is probably simplest to remote the can colonize & can't build ships combo from species until such a combo is better supported.

revision 5799

"to avoid confusing human and AI removed 'can colonize' from species that can't build ships."


You can expose "can build ships" to the AI at your leisure.

[Geoff the Medio]

...the AI doesn't currently even have access to the "Can Produce Ships" flag.

In the latest SVN, it now does.

[yandonman]

Additional notes from 0.4.2 playtesting/making of video

• Would "by 10% of base population" be more palatable than "by 0.1 per Population"?
• Shipyards reduce "construction" (but not industry) - what does that mean and the description should be modified to be explicit if it has an in-game effect.
• Sometimes I find that I want to skip through uninteresting turns (aka: auto-increment turns if nothing "notable" happens).
• Planet or System Grouped production window: While the existing production items do note where they are being produced, it's not very readable. Suggestion: group the production queue by planet or system (and the planet/system would be represented by a planet/star icon followed by the name: which would add some more color to that screen).

[Geoff the Medio]

Would "by 10% of base population" be more palatable than "by 0.1 per Population"?

I prefer the latter...

Shipyards reduce "construction" (but not industry) - what does that mean and the description should be modified to be explicit if it has an in-game effect.

Should be changed to say "infrastructure".

[Dilvish]

[*]Sometimes I find that I want to skip through uninteresting turns (aka: auto-increment turns if nothing "notable" happens).

but sometimes you may remember you wanted to do something else, or think to check something that prompts a new plan, etc. Auto skipping turns seems to me to riskily carry a high price compared to the low hassle of clicking next turn on the fairly rare "nothing notable" turns.

[*]Planet or System Grouped production window: While the existing production items do note where they are being produced, it's not very readable. Suggestion: group the production queue by planet or system (and the planet/system would be represented by a planet/star icon followed by the name: which would add some more color to that screen).

for short location names its generally readable (and I recommend renaming/truncating captured AI capitols); another possibility is to have the tooltip for the queue element state the build location

[Bigjoe5]

Auto skipping turns seems to me to riskily carry a high price compared to the low hassle of clicking next turn on the fairly rare "nothing notable" turns.

MoO2 was quite good in that regard, as it would immediately stop cycling through turns as soon as they player clicked the Turn button again. Although in my opinion, making each and every turn interesting is a higher priority than giving the player a way to skip turns...

[eleazar]

Although in my opinion, making each and every turn interesting is a higher priority than giving the player a way to skip turns...

Agreed. Also once a turn-skipper is implemented the incentive to make (almost) every turn interesting goes way down.