empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

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BlueAward
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empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#1 Post by BlueAward »

hello,

apologies I don't really want to deal with github account at this time, so let me write here

Build 2022-07-26.9439c8d. I have conquered a system from AI that had Cynos homeworld and another planet (I landed with troops on the cynos planet). Cynos can produce ships but can't colonize planets. So here I go, hauling an organic outpost ship and establishing outpost to then change into a colony. But when trying to build colony, I get "(FAILED) that doesn't contain an object that is a BLD_COL_EXOBOT building". I tried abandoning the outpost, and establishing it again, same thing. Now I am in the process of trying to build a colony ship instead of outpost ship and seeing if that fixes that (otherwise probably need that "super tester takeover" thing if I want to claim that planet after all?)

I don't know what led to this situation. Attached save game, the system is Xenon alpha I. Debug dump says it has building 48915 but UI shows nothing. Is there something else I could do to help identyfing the issue? Once I get with colony ship there, I'll see what happens and report back
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cannot_build_colony_on_xenon_T331.zip
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Oberlus
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#2 Post by Oberlus »

Looks like a bug.
New issue on github: https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/issues/4049

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Grummel7
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#3 Post by Grummel7 »

Since you have no github account, I'll repeat my reply here:

Adding buildings to the object list, you can see that the planet indeed contains a Exobot Colony Building, which still belongs to the empire Solidarity.
This is mysterious:
How did you get the planet, but not the building?
Why can you not see the building?
An why does the building still exist? Every colony building should self-destroy 2 turns after being finished.

You conquered the planet in 314 and in 318 its population died out (Evacuation?)
Do you have an (auto)-save a few turns before 314, so we can see the planet how it looked like before you conquered it?

BlueAward
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#4 Post by BlueAward »

I am really sorry, I don't have the earlier save game anymore :( Perhaps I conquered the planet on the turn when you get a living populace on the planet already but the building that produces the populace is still around, built the evacuation to purge the populace (too bad I can't build "the other thing" anymore without the policy) and somehow the removal never triggered? Especially if the starting populace was not 3 but 1? One thing for sure, I do not see the building in the UI so can't, say, try scraping it, but also can't build a new colony. I did not remember conquering that planet, only later noticed I can't build a colony so tried first abandoning the outpost - I thought I outposted that planet to begin with, rather than conquered.

BlueAward
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#5 Post by BlueAward »

oooh fancy, never used the object list to a bigger extent... I have just seen the exobot building's debug dump suggests it was created on turn 275 which I suppose adds to mystery because it was long before I conquered the planet. I think around that time I had a battle in that area and actually underestimated the AI and had to retreat and bring more/bigger guns (was spreading myself too thin on several fronts). Maybe the planet being attacked or some battle in the area had some impact on a situation

But I guess without earlier saves we can't really know? Bummer

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Grummel7
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#6 Post by Grummel7 »

BlueAward wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:19 pm I am really sorry, I don't have the earlier save game anymore :( Perhaps I conquered the planet on the turn when you get a living populace on the planet already but the building that produces the populace is still around...
I already tried that, that does not reproduce the effect.

One more question: Have you updated the game at some point, or played it all with the same build?

BlueAward
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#7 Post by BlueAward »

I did not update the game in flight, it was build 2022-07-26.9439c8d all the way.

The building saying it's from turn 275 really suggests it was not directly connected with my conquering, but might have been something around battles in the area. Don't think another AI was present there anymore only me and the original owner.

Would it be somehow possible for AI to build two colonies at the same time? Memory is a feeble thing, I may be hallucinating but I seem to recall that I saw something like that once but was able to remove the extraneous colony building and thought not much of it. I mean I think it was even this game, some Eexaw planet. Was it possible previously for a human player to build several colonies at once but it was removed so people could not readily abuse popular terraforming? Is AI somehow able to go around that fix? Trying to brainstorm here. I really don't remember what population was there originally on the Xenon planet, perhaps not exobot, but it is quite possible it did not suit me and I purged it to install something better suited to Radiated (Replicons).

Hey! Actually I took another look at this fancy object list and I saw Chthon gamma I has a "Colony of Laenfa" building owned by Zone, created on turn 137, but the planet is mine, full of happy Laenfas, conquered on turn 161, when I was rather happy to assimilate sneaky telepathic species into the fold. So this problem may indeed be more widespread, I just have not noticed that in case of Chthon because I did not purge the Laenfa populace

BlueAward
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#8 Post by BlueAward »

(for completeness sake - I did update a 0.4.10.2 build to the test one I am currently playing on, rather than having a clean install of the test one, but obviously this game started after that, and I did not update since to a newer one)

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Grummel7
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#9 Post by Grummel7 »

Indeed, the rule to not allow enqueuing multiple colony building was just added a few commits before your build.

Also I noted you used a build that did not include the AI adaption for that rule, so the AI did not know how to remove and existing colony building, when it wanted to build another species. But the game rules are the same for AI and players, if you cannot enqueue multiple colony buildings, the AI should not be able to do it neither.

BlueAward
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#10 Post by BlueAward »

I was able to colonize the impacted world with a colonizing ship rather than building a colony, so at least there's that. I abandoned the outpost before doing the colonizing, but I think that was not necessary, seems you can colonize an outpost.

In fact, I played a bit with this and it is possible to colonize a world that has a colony under construction. That colony then does not get removed, it stays in construction as "finishing: never". Not saying this is what the AI is doing, but perhaps something along those lines? I have yet to check what happens if this is a just-built colony, rather than one still in construction.

EDIT: I thought that makes popular terraforming "still exploitable" if you involve colony ship, but I re-read that thread and seems this exploit is just there anyway if you simply "pause" the popular terraforming. Now I'll be tempted to do that exploit, I was doing the gaia thing "for years" now but... well, terraforming is available sooner than gaia and you might not have "good" species readily available but "almost good" around. And that demon on my shoulder whispering sweet temptations to abuse the system... Hard to fight especially in single player

BlueAward
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#11 Post by BlueAward »

I wanted to add that I realized the weird colonies are on the object list as "previously visible", so perhaps it is that I saw something and game is keeping a reference to otherwise non existing object, keeping it alive, but on github I see you've figured out a proper repro - great job! I guess I'll move on to a newer test build now, cheers

Ophiuchus
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#12 Post by Ophiuchus »

BlueAward wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:18 am EDIT: I thought that makes popular terraforming "still exploitable" if you involve colony ship, but I re-read that thread and seems this exploit is just there anyway if you simply "pause" the popular terraforming. Now I'll be tempted to do that exploit
it would be good if you abuse it and report back if (and how much) it was worth it in what kind of situation
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BlueAward
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Re: empty outpost but claims BLD_COL_EXOBOT is present

#13 Post by BlueAward »

Ophiuchus wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:27 am
BlueAward wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:18 am EDIT: I thought that makes popular terraforming "still exploitable" if you involve colony ship, but I re-read that thread and seems this exploit is just there anyway if you simply "pause" the popular terraforming. Now I'll be tempted to do that exploit
it would be good if you abuse it and report back if (and how much) it was worth it in what kind of situation
Ha, you got me there! I am currently in a bit of fatalistic mood, that barely anything is worth it to build other than directly related to ships, troops, and colonization. But playing SP certainly allows for a lot of what may be a suboptimal game, but "fun" for this or that reason, and terraforming everything I can and putting gaia transformations everywhere is just something I enjoy to do, not that I necessarily think it is worth it "numerically speaking". And then perhaps put Scylior everywhere mwahaha or whatever. But I guess at that point I am winning anyway and it's just simming around

I suppose the influence wants to put some soft cap on the size of your empire, and otherwise other players in a multiplayer game may stand their groud pretty well, at which point it may make more sense to squeeze as much as possible out of your current empire and do your terraformings... Perhaps the biggest deal then would be to put the biggest terraforming you can everywhere to get most out of terraforming policy? But... maybe you'd still be better off with couple more ships now anyway, than one more than that in more distant future, and the environmental policy rather than terraforming one (though that policy sounds too punishing to me rather than helpful). Hard to say - and I suppose exactly the reason you'd like some concrete, if anecdotal, evidence :)

If I have something to report, I'll put it on the "popular terraforming" thread. Initially most obvious thing compared to gaia route is... when you don't want to build gaia! (don't want to spend RP on it or PP towards it) But this exploit could enable sooner, cheaper switch of key planets to "good" condition, even without gaia. It's still very circumstantial though

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