Colony Admin costs are an information leak

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wobbly
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Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#1 Post by wobbly »

Basically you can tell how many colonies an empire has by this number. Not perfectly, you don't know how many are outposts, but roughly.

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Grummel7
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#2 Post by Grummel7 »

You can also just open the Colonies Page in Game Graphs and see how many colonies each empire has.

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LienRag
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#3 Post by LienRag »

How do you get this information about Colony Admin costs ?
Or do you mean the Influence upkeep ?

wobbly
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#4 Post by wobbly »

Grummel7 wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:32 pm You can also just open the Colonies Page in Game Graphs and see how many colonies each empire has.
Not in multiplayer, where the graphs are off.

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Oberlus
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#5 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:34 pm How do you get this information about Colony Admin costs ?
Or do you mean the Influence upkeep ?
Both are the same.

Daybreak
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#6 Post by Daybreak »

what is the formula?

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Oberlus
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#7 Post by Oberlus »

Upkeep of a single colony is 0.4*sqrt(#populated_planets + 0.25*#outposts)
(4 outposts count as 1 colony)
So when you see the colony administration upkeep of a colony, say X, you know the owner empire has (2.5*X)^2 colonies.
Example, upkeep 1.25, colonies=9.76, maybe 9 colonies and 3 outposts? Let's see, 0.4*sqrt(9.75)=1.249. Correct.

Daybreak
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#8 Post by Daybreak »

+1 for hiding that information.

Daybreak
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#9 Post by Daybreak »

Grummel7 wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:32 pm You can also just open the Colonies Page in Game Graphs and see how many colonies each empire has.
That would be nice, but those damn admins thought of everything :D
The graphs are hidden in multiplayer.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#10 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:48 pm +1 for hiding that information.
That is not so easy with the way FO works. Could put a fixed part of influence upkeep on every colony (e.g. -1 and -0.25 on an outpost) put the difference on e.g. the capital.
So the enemy needs to see the capital in order to get the hint. This is ok in my opinion, but upkeep cost display for your own empire gets one step more convoluted

Or changing the backend we could treat influence meters differently and always hide them from other players. But that opens a can of worms, maybe players try to figure out those meters manually which sounds quite unfun.
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LienRag
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#11 Post by LienRag »

Ophiuchus wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:50 pm [maybe players try to figure out those meters manually which sounds quite unfun.
What do you mean ?
How to figure meters manually if they are hidden ?

Ophiuchus
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#12 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:18 pm
Ophiuchus wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:50 pm [maybe players try to figure out those meters manually which sounds quite unfun.
What do you mean ?
How to figure meters manually if they are hidden ?
I meant estimating IP production by analysing visible planets. Looking at focus, applied policies, species etc... and summing up and extrapolating.

Hidden or peaceful scouts can make a lot of planets visible.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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Daybreak
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#13 Post by Daybreak »

Ophiuchus wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:37 pm I meant estimating IP production by analysing visible planets. Looking at focus, applied policies, species etc... and summing up and extrapolating.

Hidden or peaceful scouts can make a lot of planets visible.
Buts thats ok - its a choice, if I let peaceful scouts through my territory, or don't reseach scanner strength.

Currently its not a choice
Daybreak wrote: Buts thats ok - its a choice, if I let peaceful scouts through my territory, or don't reseach scanner strength.
And in the future, as diplomacy progresses, there may be a peace, a non agreesion stance, which does not allow scouts (non hidden scouts) through your territory

But for now Colony upkeep should be hifdden from other players.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#14 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:25 pm Buts thats ok - its a choice
That's not how micromanaging works
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o01eg
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#15 Post by o01eg »

Ophiuchus wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:50 pm That is not so easy with the way FO works. Could put a fixed part of influence upkeep on every colony (e.g. -1 and -0.25 on an outpost) put the difference on e.g. the capital.
What if empire lost its capital?
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