Colony Admin costs are an information leak

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Grummel7
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#16 Post by Grummel7 »

wobbly wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:35 pm
Grummel7 wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:32 pm You can also just open the Colonies Page in Game Graphs and see how many colonies each empire has.
Not in multiplayer, where the graphs are off.
Hm, I've never done real Multiplayer, but I started a Multiplayer game with AIs and I could see it. Maybe its only disabled when having more than one human player. That's a bit more complicated to simulate on one machine.

Even in single-user games I consider it strange that I get so much information about AI-opponents I haven't even seen yet. I guess in Multiplayer mode the empire pedia will not tell you all policies and techs your opponents have. Do you get a SitRep when an empire increases its Detection Strength?

Perhaps whether or not you get this information should become a game option. It would also make a game against AIs a little more challenging if you do not know so much about them.

o01eg
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#17 Post by o01eg »

Grummel7 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:11 am Hm, I've never done real Multiplayer, but I started a Multiplayer game with AIs and I could see it. Maybe its only disabled when having more than one human player. That's a bit more complicated to simulate on one machine.

Even in single-user games I consider it strange that I get so much information about AI-opponents I haven't even seen yet. I guess in Multiplayer mode the empire pedia will not tell you all policies and techs your opponents have. Do you get a SitRep when an empire increases its Detection Strength?

Perhaps whether or not you get this information should become a game option. It would also make a game against AIs a little more challenging if you do not know so much about them.
We have disabled option to show graphs in our multiplayer games.
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Oberlus
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#18 Post by Oberlus »

A toggle at game start to show or hide those graphs would be good.
The way o01eg does it is more artisan I think?

o01eg
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#19 Post by o01eg »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:58 am A toggle at game start to show or hide those graphs would be good.
The way o01eg does it is more artisan I think?
I don't have GUI on the servers so I did it by editing configuration file.
Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-11.2, boost-1.78.0
Ubuntu Server 22.04 x64, gcc-12, boost-1.74.0
Welcome to the slow multiplayer game at freeorion-lt.dedyn.io.Version 2024-03-15.b3de094.
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Grummel7
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#20 Post by Grummel7 »

o01eg wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:20 am We have disabled option to show graphs in our multiplayer games.
How did you do that? I cannot find an option for it.
Did you also disable empire pedia pages?

o01eg
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#21 Post by o01eg »

Grummel7 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:20 pm
o01eg wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:20 am We have disabled option to show graphs in our multiplayer games.
How did you do that? I cannot find an option for it.
Did you also disable empire pedia pages?
network.server.publish-statistics and network.server.publish-seed
Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-11.2, boost-1.78.0
Ubuntu Server 22.04 x64, gcc-12, boost-1.74.0
Welcome to the slow multiplayer game at freeorion-lt.dedyn.io.Version 2024-03-15.b3de094.
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Grummel7
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#22 Post by Grummel7 »

o01eg wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:24 pm network.server.publish-statistics and network.server.publish-seed
That does not sound likes it is done in config.xml, where did put that?

o01eg
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#23 Post by o01eg »

Grummel7 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:11 pm
o01eg wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:24 pm network.server.publish-statistics and network.server.publish-seed
That does not sound likes it is done in config.xml, where did put that?
https://github.com/o01eg/freeorion/blob ... config.xml
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Ophiuchus
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#24 Post by Ophiuchus »

o01eg wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:15 am
Ophiuchus wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:50 pm That is not so easy with the way FO works. Could put a fixed part of influence upkeep on every colony (e.g. -1 and -0.25 on an outpost) put the difference on e.g. the capital.
What if empire lost its capital?
Empire root then
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wobbly
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#25 Post by wobbly »

Grummel7 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:11 am Even in single-user games I consider it strange that I get so much information about AI-opponents I haven't even seen yet. I guess in Multiplayer mode the empire pedia will not tell you all policies and techs your opponents have. Do you get a SitRep when an empire increases its Detection Strength?

Perhaps whether or not you get this information should become a game option. It would also make a game against AIs a little more challenging if you do not know so much about them.
Unfortunately you can see this stuff. Its a long standing issue with some technical problems hiding the info. See for instance:

https://www.freeorion.org/forum/viewtop ... 59#p103159

Daybreak
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#26 Post by Daybreak »

wobbly wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:12 am
Grummel7 wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:11 am Even in single-user games I consider it strange that I get so much information about AI-opponents I haven't even seen yet. I guess in Multiplayer mode the empire pedia will not tell you all policies and techs your opponents have. Do you get a SitRep when an empire increases its Detection Strength?

Perhaps whether or not you get this information should become a game option. It would also make a game against AIs a little more challenging if you do not know so much about them.
Unfortunately you can see this stuff. Its a long standing issue with some technical problems hiding the info. See for instance:

https://www.freeorion.org/forum/viewtop ... 59#p103159
From what I read it is not so much a technical issue to hide the information, except they talked about hiding weapon damage, which players would not be happy about.
Geoff the Medio From that topic wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:05 am Probably need to add a check when serializing, such as here to only send the real tech info if the encoding empire matches the id of the empire being serialized or if they are allies, similar to the stuff below about sending production and research queues.
+1 it should be easy to add a check to see if the query comes from the Empire that owns the planet or an ally, and if not display 0 (zero) for colony upkeep. Then do something similar for the Pedia.

I don't think weapon damage should be hidden. If you are in a battle then I feel its ok that damage can be analysed.

For SP use, would be great if it was an option within game setup.

wobbly
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Re: Colony Admin costs are an information leak

#27 Post by wobbly »

You'd need to hide the detection circles around planets if you wanted to hide detection strength.

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