Feedback on stability and influence

Describe your experience with the latest version of FreeOrion to help us improve it.

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gendalf
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#16 Post by gendalf »

Micro in the sense that you have to have lots of prerequisite knowledge and experience with the game's idiosyncrasy just to function within it. Making it hard to see at a glance optimization routes for which policies to take, buildings to build, which species to spread.

It can be eased with a more intuitive & visual UI, but not entirely eliminated.
Last edited by gendalf on Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#17 Post by Ophiuchus »

gendalf wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:50 am Micro in the sense that you have to have lots of prerequisite knowledge and experience with the game's idiosyncrasy just to function within it.
It can be eased with a more intuitive & visual UI, but not entirely eliminated.
I think everybody agrees with this, also LienRag wrote that this a problem.

But micro in freeorion context means micro-management and that is something different.

And as avoiding micro-management is the prime design directive for freeorion, calling something micro-management when it isn't will provoke justified resistance
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wobbly
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#18 Post by wobbly »

gendalf wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:33 pm But having huge lists of likes/dislikes for each species is a bit too much micro and learning.
I agree that the lists are too long. It does get better when you are familiar with how things work, I just quickly scan the list for what's relevant to me. That does however bring up the question: If most of the list isn't really relevant, does it need to be there?

Anyway I have 2 questions:

1. If we keep the list system but make them shorter, does that solve your issue?
2. If the list were organised in to multiple shorter lists, is that better? or worse?

e.g. Instead of:

Likes: blah focus, blah focus, blah building, blah policy, blah building, blah policy

this:

Likes focus: blah
Likes building: blah, blah
Likes policy: blah, blah

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Oberlus
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#19 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:28 am 1. If we keep the list system but make them shorter, does that solve your issue?
2. If the list were organised in to multiple shorter lists, is that better? or worse?

e.g. Instead of:

Likes: blah focus, blah focus, blah building, blah policy, blah building, blah policy

this:

Likes focus: blah
Likes building: blah, blah
Likes policy: blah, blah
That would be an improvement, hands down.

Another way, compatible with this one, would be to see if some sets of policies, buildings, foci could be grouped/labeled together.
For example, if there are several species that like a given set of related content, like the five luxury specials, we could have "Luxury specials" instead of "FRACTAL_GEODES, MIMETIC_ALLOY, SHIMMER_SILK, SPARK_FOSSILS and SUCCULENT_BARNACLES". But I don't think there is any...

OT: does it make sense that a robotic species likes succulent barnacles? Maybe as pets...

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Grummel7
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#20 Post by Grummel7 »

wobbly wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:28 am Likes focus: blah
Likes building: blah, blah
Likes policy: blah, blah
The list is already compacted, originally it reported every building on its own.

Dislikes buildings: 8x Scanning Facility (remote), Scanning Facility (local), 2x Gas Giant Generator (remote), 1x Gas Giant Generator (same system)... -X.YZ

I don't think its impossible to create such a list, but I doubt that it makes things easier to understand. Plus the pop-up needs to be changed to wrap lines, I guess

wobbly
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#21 Post by wobbly »

Grummel7 wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:44 am
wobbly wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:28 am Likes focus: blah
Likes building: blah, blah
Likes policy: blah, blah
The list is already compacted, originally it reported every building on its own.

Dislikes buildings: 8x Scanning Facility (remote), Scanning Facility (local), 2x Gas Giant Generator (remote), 1x Gas Giant Generator (same system)... -X.YZ
Either you are confused, or I am.

I'm talking about the list on pedia pages, not the list on mouse-over of stability modifiers.

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Grummel7
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#22 Post by Grummel7 »

wobbly wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:47 am I'm talking about the list on pedia pages, not the list on mouse-over of stability modifiers.
Sorry, I didn't read enough context.

Yes, in the Pedia, such a structuring would be an improvement.

gendalf
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#23 Post by gendalf »

I think Border Checkpoints isn't working, just eats a ton of influence without reducing other's stealth at all.

Also xenophobic species are unusable, they're always negative stab themselves and reducing others.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#24 Post by Ophiuchus »

gendalf wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:52 am I think Border Checkpoints isn't working, just eats a ton of influence without reducing other's stealth at all.
can you upload a game save?

also note it only works on others in your supply
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LienRag
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#25 Post by LienRag »

gendalf wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:52 am Also xenophobic species are unusable, they're always negative stab themselves and reducing others.
They're not, but they need to be played to their strengths.

Daybreak
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#26 Post by Daybreak »

gendalf wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:52 am I think Border Checkpoints isn't working, just eats a ton of influence without reducing other's stealth at all.

Also xenophobic species are unusable, they're always negative stab themselves and reducing others.
Have you reached the 20 turns after you applied it, as scanner strength increase one point per turn.

BlueAward
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#27 Post by BlueAward »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:11 am
gendalf wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:52 am I think Border Checkpoints isn't working, just eats a ton of influence without reducing other's stealth at all.

Also xenophobic species are unusable, they're always negative stab themselves and reducing others.
Have you reached the 20 turns after you applied it, as scanner strength increase one point per turn.
There were discussions on changing how Border Checkpoints work, admittedly I have not followed/checked if those made it to the main branch but this makes me think OP is referring to the policy post-MP21

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Oberlus
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#28 Post by Oberlus »

BlueAward wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:39 am There were discussions on changing how Border Checkpoints work, admittedly I have not followed/checked if those made it to the main branch but this makes me think OP is referring to the policy post-MP21
That's right. Checkpoints now doesn't increase detection, but decreases other's ships (unless allied) within your supply.

BTW, the implementation for ships in starlanes is clever:

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... xt#L37-L48

It checks if there are two system supplied by the checkpoints empire that are either the destination or the origin of that ship.

Ophiuchus, now I realize I didn't understand what you meant by "or slightly out of supply".
For me, a ship that is traveling from foreign supply to own supply (I being the checkpoints empire) should get the stealth malus on the turn it arrives to the checkpoints system, but current implementation would make this to take one extra turn, right? So maybe remove the "2 == " from the Statistic Count?

Daybreak
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#29 Post by Daybreak »

The pedia needs updating then.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Feedback on stability and influence

#30 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:34 pm The pedia needs updating then.
It is not?
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