Lost Motivation to play

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drkosy
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:41 am

Lost Motivation to play

#1 Post by drkosy »

After several games I lost motivation to play again. It took me a while to find several reasons for that. Even if I don't like to criticize other people hard work, I would like to give you some explanations why I lost my motivation.
1.) The gameplay is very simple: You scout the galaxy, find planets, colonize them, set the focus and that's mostly is it. Maybe you build a shipyard with some extentions, very maybe you terraform the planet but that's it. So it's just explore, colonize, explore, colonize and so on. No need to change the focus, no need to watch you colonies. That might be intended but that exploration should be more interessting. There should be hidden starlanes, abundant space stations that could be found if you keep ships with scanner in the system. They could provide you with different benefits like technology, extra PP, ships to use etc.
2.) There is not really any different gameplay between the different metabolims. Robots have robotic interface and the groth specials you hunt are different, but that's it. I would like to feel real differences. There could be three resources in the game that are related to one metabolism and is used for them as "food": lithic -> minerals, robotic -> energy, organic -> egology. Resources are shared between planets within supply. Or via "Hyperspace transporters" to colonies that aren't supplied. The focus decides what a planet "consumes": production -> minerals are converted to PP, research -> energy is converted into RP, Growth -> ecology is put into terraforming, supply: hyperspace transporters are build etc. The capacity of supply lines and hyperspace transports could be limited and boosted by science, e.g. to transport energy you need crystals that could be improved (silicium crystals replaced by tritium crystals and so on). In that scenario, with each new colony you have at least to think about the foci of other planets. If you settle a planet in a system with white star with would produce a lot of energy would enable you to change the focus of another planet to science.
3.) How the game went is mostly defined by luck. If there are some adequate or good planets around you can easily take out another player with less luck. Even if you rush to exobots, you can't compensate bad luck. With the system discribed in 2.) and a well balanced tech-tree it could be possible to compensate bad luck by booster your missing resources by new technology.
4.) If you are going to plan a metabolism related tech-tree it would be consequent to do the same with resources.

I guess your answer will be: We had that before but it isn't compatible with KISS. Well, it's your game, I just say what I think would be a more interessting game...
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Oberlus
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Re: Lost Motivation to play

#2 Post by Oberlus »

Do you play against human players?

Ophiuchus
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Re: Lost Motivation to play

#3 Post by Ophiuchus »

Trying to give an answer
drkosy wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:52 pm 1.) The gameplay is very simple: .... No need to change the focus, no need to watch you colonies.
intended
drkosy wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:52 pmbut that exploration should be more interessting. There should be hidden starlanes, abundant space stations that could be found if you keep ships with scanner in the system.
stealth is going to be changed at least once in a major way. and all that contents you suggest was suggested before.
drkosy wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:52 pm 2.) ...There could be three resources in the game that are related to one metabolism and is used for them as "food": lithic -> minerals, robotic -> energy, organic -> egology.
was dropped because of more micromanagement and not that much more interesting game.
changes which make species feel more different than they do now will be gladly accepted.
drkosy wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:52 pm 3.) How the game went is mostly defined by luck. If there are some adequate or good planets around you can easily take out another player with less luck. Even if you rush to exobots, you can't compensate bad luck.
for single-player games randomized starts are interesting. we are working on giving players in multiplayer a more uniform/balanced start (next step via special galaxy generation in vicinity of home planets)
drkosy wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:52 pm 4.) If you are going to plan a metabolism related tech-tree it would be consequent to do the same with resources.
Not sure what you are hinting at. The next tech tree oberlus is working on be broad theme based.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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drkosy
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Re: Lost Motivation to play

#4 Post by drkosy »

Thank's for the explanations!
Actually I thought of something with low micromanagement but big impact on metabolisms and on that terraforming-thing. Terraforming is really micromanagement, because you need to construct a terraforming-project on every planet, mostly several times. Maybe there should be another solution than setting a focus to terraform. It could something like you mark planets for terraforming and all free ecology is distributed between those marked planets. O.K. that maybe would need another organizing system (maybe small like influence) but would make terraforming so much easier.
I would also like to add more differences to that growth specials. For that organic growth specials you only need one of each type per empire while the other specials at least boot production. With that ecology resource the organic specials could boost ecology output helping you to terraform your planets.
As you see I like especally the idea of ecology resources...

It's hard to get a different playstyle for the metabolims if population is the only resource you have. I mean they need real differences, not something like "all lithic races have growth halved but are tolerant vs. different environments", that is already taken care by traits...
I think it could be possible to work with different resources with only little impact on micromanagement, but if you generally dislike the idea of more resources I don't need to think further about that.

Not sure what you are hinting at. The next tech tree oberlus is working on be broad theme based.
It was this:
- We get six new categories, one per each metabolism O/R/L/P/S/G, for metabolism-related boosts of all kind.
quote of this threat
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11207
that I mentioned. Maybe I didn't get that wrong, to be honest I didn't read till the end of the last page...
Do you play against human players?
No, that would be difficult time management for me. I often have some 2 hours for playing either in the afternoon or late night and often I don't know before when I have spare time to play.
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Oberlus
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Re: Lost Motivation to play

#5 Post by Oberlus »

drkosy wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:08 pm
Do you play against human players?
No, that would be difficult time management for me. I often have some 2 hours for playing either in the afternoon or late night and often I don't know before when I have spare time to play.
Then I understand you lost motivation, AIs are not on par of any experienced player, unless you create ad-hoc games with allied AIs.
And I understand why you suggest most of the things you did. For example, when you said "You scout the galaxy, find planets, colonize them, set the focus and that's mostly is it [...] No need to change the focus, no need to watch you colonies." That is certainly not true when playing against competent players, you do have to tend to your colonies (focus change, even species change) to maximize output, pay a lot of attention to the research queue to maximize output and combat/defense capabilities, keep an eye on all your ships and what are your enemies doing, ... It can be even stressful or thrilling without having to micromanage anything at all.

If you would have 5 minutes together at least once a day at random moments (with the option to ask for a pause of a few days or someone to tend to your empire while you can't connect), I would recommend you joining the next multiplayer game. You would discover a new FreeOrion, granted. When more than one player connects only once a day and at different times, the game speed is 7-8 turns a week, but usually it's possible to play some 20 turns per week. For players that can connect all day long it can be a annoying having to wait so long to see the next batch of sitreps, but it's bearable, and those player can arrange their own faster games.

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drkosy
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Re: Lost Motivation to play

#6 Post by drkosy »

If you would have 5 minutes together at least once a day at random moments
Well, that actually should be possible even for me. Thank's for that description I thought it would be more like: You meet on weekends with other players and play 50 turns in one session. Good to know that's not the case. Now I just have to figure out if I feel ready for a stressful game experience :wink: At least that gives me motivation to play again and train my skills :)

Nevertheless I (and it's really my opinion) like to have:
1.) More different gameplay for different metabolisms
2.) More easy terraforming
3.) More different effects related to specials
4.) More strategic planing of colonization (especially with the current influence mechanics you just colonize everything, small and tiny planets set to influence, large ones to production / science)
5.) Creative ways to compensate bad luck at game start (I think that would be more fun than an universe generator that creates a fully symmetric galaxy)

I still think the 3 resources approach could serve well. Maybe I change my mind after playing the first multiplayer game :D
What about that concept: Focus decides what resource (minerals, energy, ecology) is produced. After subtracting "food" the resources are transformed into PP, RP and EP (that is one meter more than today). That could ether happen automatic or (what I would prefer) at factories (e.g. one factory could process 100 minerals to 100 PP raising with research). One planet could hold unlimited factories and laboratories, so you have to decide if you build one big industrial center or if you spread your factories. Of cause your homeworld would have one factory an one reaserchlab right at the beginning.
Specials could than push resource output or resource processing giving more variety there. As well as you could choose if you go for some high yield planets or spread your empire across many planets.
I think that would't be to much more micromanagement. Even if you don't like the idea or more resources, maybe you like to think about some parts of the concept.
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