Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
Moderator: Oberlus
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Always mention the exact version of FreeOrion you are testing.
When reporting an issue regarding the AI, if possible provide the relevant AI log file and a save game file that demonstrates the issue.
Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
FreeOrion v0.4.9+ [build 2020-04.14.60fb514] MSVC 2017
The multiplayer server was just updated and I am seeing the results of PR2745. So now after freshly colonizing a planet you have to wait 5 full turns for any research/production! Wasn't the +1/turn growth slow enough already? This is really annoying for economic growth.
And for the main purpose of penalizing a recently captured planet I thought that resetting the production/research to 0 was extreme enough already. Now we have to wait for happiness too.
The reason for the lack of growth is not indicated clearly in the game either. I thought this was a bug at first.
The multiplayer server was just updated and I am seeing the results of PR2745. So now after freshly colonizing a planet you have to wait 5 full turns for any research/production! Wasn't the +1/turn growth slow enough already? This is really annoying for economic growth.
And for the main purpose of penalizing a recently captured planet I thought that resetting the production/research to 0 was extreme enough already. Now we have to wait for happiness too.
The reason for the lack of growth is not indicated clearly in the game either. I thought this was a bug at first.
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
It adds a one-time penalty for acquisition which will happen more frequently in contested area. Also really bad happiness will prevent production/research. It slightly helps colonisation vs other acquisition. It should be definitely revisited if that effect is too low or when influence is in place.swaq wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:49 pm FreeOrion v0.4.9+ [build 2020-04.14.60fb514] MSVC 2017
The multiplayer server was just updated and I am seeing the results of PR2745. So now after freshly colonizing a planet you have to wait 5 full turns for any research/production! Wasn't the +1/turn growth slow enough already? This is really annoying for economic growth.
And for the main purpose of penalizing a recently captured planet I thought that resetting the production/research to 0 was extreme enough already. Now we have to wait for happiness too.
viewtopic.php?t=11355#p97287
It is in the planet status indicator and in the pedia. I think that is enough for somebody trying to learn the game(?). For game-mechanic changes we do not have an announcement mechanism (besides the git log; and the info i provide sometimes with the snap builds) at all. What information mechanisms would you propose?
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
The problem I see now with this new patch, that I didn't spot when it was being devised, is that invaded colonies (native HW or empire's) will have big populations, and so big TargetMeter values. Delaying for 5 turns when it starts growing will not change the fact that it will get to big numbers soon after that. And so the purpose of penalizing recently captured colonies is not really addressed with this patch.
I think we've failed to achieve the part in bold. Indeed, we've got the opposite: since newly founded colonies have happiness 0, the patch applies to both peaceful and military expansion. And the problem that military expansion tends to get you colonies with already grown up populations while peaceful expansion gets you puny populations of 1 that takes eons to reach big numbers, what we've achieved here is that getting Nascent AI and Adaptive Automation is no longer that big boost for fast peaceful expansion.
I'm adamant on all this being reworked after another debate.
BTW, I think we should do it in this threat (just in case someone feels compelled to quote and answer directly on the other thread, because this one is already long and with a lot of stuff that only matter natives balance.
I'm presuming most experienced players only check out the tooltip from hovering the mouse on the production/research/etc. planetary icons. I guess adding an extra red line there to indicate things like "low happines restriction" or whatever would be doable.
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
I suppose it can be fixed quickly.
Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-11.2, boost-1.78.0
Ubuntu Server 22.04 x64, gcc-12, boost-1.74.0
Welcome to the slow multiplayer game at freeorion-lt.dedyn.io.Version 2024-04-14.ad50e93.
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Welcome to the slow multiplayer game at freeorion-lt.dedyn.io.Version 2024-04-14.ad50e93.
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Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
L29Ah suggested to make
- happiness of invaded planets negative (say -5),
- happiness restriction of production/research meter growth apply when happiness is negative (instead of up to 5 as currently).
An alternative without negative values:
- happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 (instead of current 0) with the fluff that colonists are exhilarated with the prospects of thrive,
- happiness of invaded planets set to 0,
- happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.
- happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 for Good planets, 3 for Adeq. planets, 1 for Poor planets and 0 for Hostile planets,
- happiness of invaded planets negative set to 0 (regardless of environment),
- happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
Another option, suggested in the past several times: reduce population of invaded planets.
Many points to weight in here:
Many points to weight in here:
- How much is pop reduced?
- Percentage of current pop or fixed number?
- Does environment tolerance for invading or invaded species affect the pop reduction?
- Does number of troops involved affect the pop reduction?
- Does offensive troop trait of invading species or defensive troop trait of invaded species affect the pop reduction?
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
I agree with Oberlus that it achieves the opposite effect. Having to wait 5 turns for the flat bonuses to kick in really negates the benefit of building a new 1 population colony.Ophiuchus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:36 amIt adds a one-time penalty for acquisition which will happen more frequently in contested area. Also really bad happiness will prevent production/research. It slightly helps colonisation vs other acquisition. It should be definitely revisited if that effect is too low or when influence is in place.swaq wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:49 pm FreeOrion v0.4.9+ [build 2020-04.14.60fb514] MSVC 2017
The multiplayer server was just updated and I am seeing the results of PR2745. So now after freshly colonizing a planet you have to wait 5 full turns for any research/production! Wasn't the +1/turn growth slow enough already? This is really annoying for economic growth.
And for the main purpose of penalizing a recently captured planet I thought that resetting the production/research to 0 was extreme enough already. Now we have to wait for happiness too.
viewtopic.php?t=11355#p97287
I don't see a planet status indicator for this.Ophiuchus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:36 amIt is in the planet status indicator and in the pedia. I think that is enough for somebody trying to learn the game(?). For game-mechanic changes we do not have an announcement mechanism (besides the git log; and the info i provide sometimes with the snap builds) at all. What information mechanisms would you propose?
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Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
I vote for this option. It makes no sense for new colonists to be just as unhappy as invaded natives/enemies and I like the idea of it being based on the habitability. That would also make habitability still matter some in the late game.Oberlus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:43 am Yet another alternative including environment (this is the variant I like the most):
- happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 for Good planets, 3 for Adeq. planets, 1 for Poor planets and 0 for Hostile planets,
- happiness of invaded planets negative set to 0 (regardless of environment),
- happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
Yep, I also agree with it.swaq wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:38 pmI vote for this option. It makes no sense for new colonists to be just as unhappy as invaded natives/enemies and I like the idea of it being based on the habitability. That would also make habitability still matter some in the late game.Oberlus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:43 am Yet another alternative including environment (this is the variant I like the most):
- happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 for Good planets, 3 for Adeq. planets, 1 for Poor planets and 0 for Hostile planets,
- happiness of invaded planets negative set to 0 (regardless of environment),
- happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.
Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-11.2, boost-1.78.0
Ubuntu Server 22.04 x64, gcc-12, boost-1.74.0
Welcome to the slow multiplayer game at freeorion-lt.dedyn.io.Version 2024-04-14.ad50e93.
Donations're welcome:BTC:bc1q007qldm6eppqcukewtfkfcj0naut9njj7audnm
Ubuntu Server 22.04 x64, gcc-12, boost-1.74.0
Welcome to the slow multiplayer game at freeorion-lt.dedyn.io.Version 2024-04-14.ad50e93.
Donations're welcome:BTC:bc1q007qldm6eppqcukewtfkfcj0naut9njj7audnm
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
Do you see it the planet status indicator in another case? Fifty-seven cant colonize, right, so probably the cant-colonize info is not shown, please file a bug.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
Not sure about timing. Dont have time to tackle this. Should in my opinion not be done in the backend.o01eg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:55 pmYep, I also agree with it.swaq wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:38 pmI vote for this option. It makes no sense for new colonists to be just as unhappy as invaded natives/enemies and I like the idea of it being based on the habitability. That would also make habitability still matter some in the late game.Oberlus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:43 am Yet another alternative including environment (this is the variant I like the most):
- happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 for Good planets, 3 for Adeq. planets, 1 for Poor planets and 0 for Hostile planets,
- happiness of invaded planets negative set to 0 (regardless of environment),
- happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.
Oberlus can you try with FOCS with the help of others? You should be able to get some turn and combat info. e.g. somewhere in the species macros (happiness.macros ?) use something like Source.LastTurnConquered and compare with CurrentTurn in the activation and in the effect: SetHappiness value = Source.HabitableSize
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
I figured it out. The planet status doesn't show up on ally or enemy owned planets. Only your own empire's planets.
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
As a balance note this could very adversely affect xenophobic species as they can sometimes struggle to reach five happiness.
Re: Happiness required for production/research is super annoying
Yes, I can try. And thanks for the hints.Ophiuchus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:09 pm Oberlus can you try with FOCS with the help of others? You should be able to get some turn and combat info. e.g. somewhere in the species macros (happiness.macros ?) use something like Source.LastTurnConquered and compare with CurrentTurn in the activation and in the effect: SetHappiness value = Source.HabitableSize