Happiness required for production/research is super annoying

[swaq]

FreeOrion v0.4.9+ [build 2020-04.14.60fb514] MSVC 2017

The multiplayer server was just updated and I am seeing the results of PR2745. So now after freshly colonizing a planet you have to wait 5 full turns for any research/production! Wasn't the +1/turn growth slow enough already? This is really annoying for economic growth.

And for the main purpose of penalizing a recently captured planet I thought that resetting the production/research to 0 was extreme enough already. Now we have to wait for happiness too.

The reason for the lack of growth is not indicated clearly in the game either. I thought this was a bug at first.

[Ophiuchus]

FreeOrion v0.4.9+ [build 2020-04.14.60fb514] MSVC 2017

The multiplayer server was just updated and I am seeing the results of PR2745. So now after freshly colonizing a planet you have to wait 5 full turns for any research/production! Wasn't the +1/turn growth slow enough already? This is really annoying for economic growth.

And for the main purpose of penalizing a recently captured planet I thought that resetting the production/research to 0 was extreme enough already. Now we have to wait for happiness too.

It adds a one-time penalty for acquisition which will happen more frequently in contested area. Also really bad happiness will prevent production/research. It slightly helps colonisation vs other acquisition. It should be definitely revisited if that effect is too low or when influence is in place.
viewtopic.php?t=11355#p97287

The reason for the lack of growth is not indicated clearly in the game either. I thought this was a bug at first.

It is in the planet status indicator and in the pedia. I think that is enough for somebody trying to learn the game(?). For game-mechanic changes we do not have an announcement mechanism (besides the git log; and the info i provide sometimes with the snap builds) at all. What information mechanisms would you propose?

[Oberlus]

for the main purpose of penalizing a recently captured planet I thought that resetting the production/research to 0 was extreme enough already. Now we have to wait for happiness too.

The problem I see now with this new patch, that I didn't spot when it was being devised, is that invaded colonies (native HW or empire's) will have big populations, and so big TargetMeter values. Delaying for 5 turns when it starts growing will not change the fact that it will get to big numbers soon after that. And so the purpose of penalizing recently captured colonies is not really addressed with this patch.

It adds a one-time penalty for acquisition which will happen more frequently in contested area. Also really bad happiness will prevent production/research. It slightly helps colonisation vs other acquisition.

I think we've failed to achieve the part in bold. Indeed, we've got the opposite: since newly founded colonies have happiness 0, the patch applies to both peaceful and military expansion. And the problem that military expansion tends to get you colonies with already grown up populations while peaceful expansion gets you puny populations of 1 that takes eons to reach big numbers, what we've achieved here is that getting Nascent AI and Adaptive Automation is no longer that big boost for fast peaceful expansion.

I'm adamant on all this being reworked after another debate.
BTW, I think we should do it in this threat (just in case someone feels compelled to quote and answer directly on the other thread, because this one is already long and with a lot of stuff that only matter natives balance.

What information mechanisms would you propose?

I'm presuming most experienced players only check out the tooltip from hovering the mouse on the production/research/etc. planetary icons. I guess adding an extra red line there to indicate things like "low happines restriction" or whatever would be doable.

[o01eg]

Indeed, we've got the opposite: since newly founded colonies have happiness 0

I suppose it can be fixed quickly.

[Oberlus]

Indeed, we've got the opposite: since newly founded colonies have happiness 0

I suppose it can be fixed quickly.

L29Ah suggested to make

• happiness of invaded planets negative (say -5),
• happiness restriction of production/research meter growth apply when happiness is negative (instead of up to 5 as currently).

I don't know if happiness meter can be negative with current backend.

An alternative without negative values:

• happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 (instead of current 0) with the fluff that colonists are exhilarated with the prospects of thrive,
• happiness of invaded planets set to 0,
• happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.

Yet another alternative including environment (this is the variant I like the most):

• happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 for Good planets, 3 for Adeq. planets, 1 for Poor planets and 0 for Hostile planets,
• happiness of invaded planets negative set to 0 (regardless of environment),
• happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.

[Oberlus]

Another option, suggested in the past several times: reduce population of invaded planets.

Many points to weight in here:

1. How much is pop reduced?
2. Percentage of current pop or fixed number?
3. Does environment tolerance for invading or invaded species affect the pop reduction?
4. Does number of troops involved affect the pop reduction?
5. Does offensive troop trait of invading species or defensive troop trait of invaded species affect the pop reduction?

If this could be fleshed out, I thing it would be a better solution for the "balance military vs peaceful expansion" balancing issue.

[swaq]

FreeOrion v0.4.9+ [build 2020-04.14.60fb514] MSVC 2017

The multiplayer server was just updated and I am seeing the results of PR2745. So now after freshly colonizing a planet you have to wait 5 full turns for any research/production! Wasn't the +1/turn growth slow enough already? This is really annoying for economic growth.

And for the main purpose of penalizing a recently captured planet I thought that resetting the production/research to 0 was extreme enough already. Now we have to wait for happiness too.

It adds a one-time penalty for acquisition which will happen more frequently in contested area. Also really bad happiness will prevent production/research. It slightly helps colonisation vs other acquisition. It should be definitely revisited if that effect is too low or when influence is in place.
viewtopic.php?t=11355#p97287

I agree with Oberlus that it achieves the opposite effect. Having to wait 5 turns for the flat bonuses to kick in really negates the benefit of building a new 1 population colony.

The reason for the lack of growth is not indicated clearly in the game either. I thought this was a bug at first.

It is in the planet status indicator and in the pedia. I think that is enough for somebody trying to learn the game(?). For game-mechanic changes we do not have an announcement mechanism (besides the git log; and the info i provide sometimes with the snap builds) at all. What information mechanisms would you propose?

I don't see a planet status indicator for this.

[swaq]

Yet another alternative including environment (this is the variant I like the most):

• happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 for Good planets, 3 for Adeq. planets, 1 for Poor planets and 0 for Hostile planets,
• happiness of invaded planets negative set to 0 (regardless of environment),
• happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.

I vote for this option. It makes no sense for new colonists to be just as unhappy as invaded natives/enemies and I like the idea of it being based on the habitability. That would also make habitability still matter some in the late game.

[o01eg]

Yet another alternative including environment (this is the variant I like the most):

• happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 for Good planets, 3 for Adeq. planets, 1 for Poor planets and 0 for Hostile planets,
• happiness of invaded planets negative set to 0 (regardless of environment),
• happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.

I vote for this option. It makes no sense for new colonists to be just as unhappy as invaded natives/enemies and I like the idea of it being based on the habitability. That would also make habitability still matter some in the late game.

Yep, I also agree with it.

[Ophiuchus]

I don't see a planet status indicator for this.

Do you see it the planet status indicator in another case? Fifty-seven cant colonize, right, so probably the cant-colonize info is not shown, please file a bug.

[Ophiuchus]

Yet another alternative including environment (this is the variant I like the most):

• happiness of newly colonised planets equal to 5 for Good planets, 3 for Adeq. planets, 1 for Poor planets and 0 for Hostile planets,
• happiness of invaded planets negative set to 0 (regardless of environment),
• happiness restriction of production/research meter growth as is.

I vote for this option. It makes no sense for new colonists to be just as unhappy as invaded natives/enemies and I like the idea of it being based on the habitability. That would also make habitability still matter some in the late game.

Yep, I also agree with it.

Not sure about timing. Dont have time to tackle this. Should in my opinion not be done in the backend.

Oberlus can you try with FOCS with the help of others? You should be able to get some turn and combat info. e.g. somewhere in the species macros (happiness.macros ?) use something like Source.LastTurnConquered and compare with CurrentTurn in the activation and in the effect: SetHappiness value = Source.HabitableSize

[swaq]

I don't see a planet status indicator for this.

Do you see it the planet status indicator in another case? Fifty-seven cant colonize, right, so probably the cant-colonize info is not shown, please file a bug.

I figured it out. The planet status doesn't show up on ally or enemy owned planets. Only your own empire's planets.

[swaq]

As a balance note this could very adversely affect xenophobic species as they can sometimes struggle to reach five happiness.

[Oberlus]

Oberlus can you try with FOCS with the help of others? You should be able to get some turn and combat info. e.g. somewhere in the species macros (happiness.macros ?) use something like Source.LastTurnConquered and compare with CurrentTurn in the activation and in the effect: SetHappiness value = Source.HabitableSize

Yes, I can try. And thanks for the hints.

[Oberlus]

I don't see a planet status indicator for this.

Do you see it the planet status indicator in another case? Fifty-seven cant colonize, right, so probably the cant-colonize info is not shown, please file a bug.

I figured it out. The planet status doesn't show up on ally or enemy owned planets. Only your own empire's planets.

As long as it is shown in your own planets with happiness<5 all should be good.