0.4.9 thoughts after an evening

Describe your experience with the latest version of FreeOrion to help us improve it.

Moderator: Oberlus

Forum rules
Always mention the exact version of FreeOrion you are testing.

When reporting an issue regarding the AI, if possible provide the relevant AI log file and a save game file that demonstrates the issue.
Message
Author
User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 5715
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: 0.4.9 thoughts after an evening

#31 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:18 am Sly [..] better fuel would be interesting too, but I'm not sure it is needed to make them balanced (but indeed I never played them in multi-player).
Some players say they are underpowered. Better fuel could be nice.

User avatar
LienRag
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 2148
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Re: 0.4.9 thoughts after an evening

#32 Post by LienRag »

It is true that I usually got native species to cover my Supply, Research, Troops and Pilots need after some time, so that's a different experience that going pure Sly - I had all the advantages and nearly none of the inconvenient except early game.

User avatar
Oberlus
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 5715
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: 0.4.9 thoughts after an evening

#33 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:56 am It is true that I usually got native species to cover my Supply, Research, Troops and Pilots need after some time, so that's a different experience that going pure Sly - I had all the advantages and nearly none of the inconvenient except early game.
You can get early supply also from outposts. Mid game you can use Space Elevators to have a fully supply-connected empire.
"Problem" with using outposts, exobots or most natives to project your supply is that those don't have great planetary stealth and so don't fit well in a disarmed-hidden-distributed strategy.

In that strategy, you rely on fast and far expansion using the Imperial Stockpile to supply PP to your new colonies, devoting no PP into armed ships so that you can expand (build colony ships) faster without the worry that anyone could invade one of your planets (so no research investment on defenses or weapons, just stealth hulls/parts and boosts to your economy). That is a possibility for Sly because (1) they start with great planetary stealth, so it's not hard for them (RP-wise) to stay ahead of their competitors in the Spy tech tree (just need to not let enemies get two levels of detection ahead of their stealth, which is doable even for bad research species, although watch out for empires building interstellar lighthouses in your systems or getting that special ship part that reduces stealth in the system they are), and because (2) GG are not the most demanded environment early-mid game (and so they can expect to always find some, even late game, all over the galaxy, silently infiltrating all other empires). And obviously because they are the kings of the Imperial Stockpile.
Natives species with great stealth (Furthest and Setinon) are invaluable additions to a hidden Sly empire, but more for their ability to live in non-GG while keeping hidden than for the extra supply.

All the above is true only in theory (and certainly it works wondrrs against AI empires). In multiplayer, humans players aware of the presence of a Sly will outpost GG sooner than necessary just to hinder Sly growth, and those empires that are not in trouble keeping up with their other enemies could devote more effort into researching detection and so be able to invade Sly planets or to shoot down their hidden colonizers before they have reached the point to start building their army. Also, if they know the Sly are not building army, and there are no other threats around, the non-hidden empires can also focus on fast expansion and Sly loses the advantage on that matter.
Extra fuel could be key for that extra jump they need to reach that GG over there, and so build a colony there several turns sooner (and before that other empire takes it), boosting early growth and making things easier for Sly.

That said, nothing stops a player from playing Sly like a non-hidden empire, devoting no RPs to planetary stealth (just some to imperial stockpile techs), and building non-hidden army from start, with the plus that they don't need to defend their planets for a while. Much like Laenfa, however some think Laenfa is also a bit underpowered in multiplayer.

wobbly
Cosmic Dragon
Posts: 1880
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:48 pm

Re: 0.4.9 thoughts after an evening

#34 Post by wobbly »

ovarwa wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:21 pm Now there's a major choice that can no longer be postponed, and it might have already been made: Go stealth, which means stealth tech, probably organic hulls, stockpile tech, maybe fuel tech for longer ranged colonizers (in 049, that's no longer really needed for Scouts). Or come out of hiding, which means Exobots, IA and maybe robotic hulls, with the Exobots providing the Supply network. The right choice depends largely on the map: Who is nearby? Are there natives to be captured? Are monsters blocking everything good? How many gas giants are there, and how far away? Is there a nearby Science faction that will overcome your Stealth bonus with tech? A good pilot or industrial faction that will quickly build a fleet that would doom anyone who cannot hide?

The Sly lack the industry or tech or starting population to be very good at executing either side of this choice, but they are the only faction to get it, because of their other bonuses.
You don't need exobots to get the supply lines, look for a well placed small(+1 supply) or tiny(+2 supply) planet. I'm giving them a try at the moment(v0.4.10 [build 2020-05-26.d034b5d] & on turn 50 I have 5 of 6 colonies connected by supply lines all through 1 small planet + orbital construction. I could actually bring that to 7 if I had the colony ships. Now of course that's a fairly lucky situation with a whole bunch of gas giants being just the right spot but I suspect it'll usually be not much trouble to connect up on default settings (probably stuffed on low planet though). Now obviously that means defending that outpost, however, defending 1 spot is easier then multiple spots & they have good detection range. Again I've gotten lucky here, I have a snowflake nest, so I can just watch my neighbour's capital from a fair way off, much easier to skimp on defenses when you can see enemy ships roll off the production line & which direction they are headed.

Post Reply