Robotic shields

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defaultuser
Vacuum Dragon
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Robotic shields

#1 Post by defaultuser » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:33 pm

Play 0.4.8 8/23.

I have a large fleet of mixed ships all with robotic interface shields. Right now, a Molecular Cloud is over the area. I expected shields to drop to 0, but they are all at 5. Is that expected? Other, smaller fleets, did drop to 0 shields when MC was encountered.

I didn't see anything in the Pedia or in searching old posts.

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EricF
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Re: Robotic shields

#2 Post by EricF » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:08 am

How large of a fleet? The Molecular Cloud reduces shields by 15 so maybe if your fleet is large enough to reach the max 20 then 5 would be normal.

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Oberlus
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Re: Robotic shields

#3 Post by Oberlus » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:59 am

EricF is right, molecular cloud substracts 15.
IIRC, maximum RI:S is achieved with 57 (or was it 59?) ships.
Pleasepleaseplease, join fifth multiplayer slow game!

defaultuser
Vacuum Dragon
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Re: Robotic shields

#4 Post by defaultuser » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:55 pm

EricF wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:08 am
How large of a fleet? The Molecular Cloud reduces shields by 15 so maybe if your fleet is large enough to reach the max 20 then 5 would be normal.
Ah, that's the key. Yeah, the total shields would be about 20.

defaultuser
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Re: Robotic shields

#5 Post by defaultuser » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:01 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:59 am
EricF is right, molecular cloud substracts 15.
IIRC, maximum RI:S is achieved with 57 (or was it 59?) ships.
63 ships, so maxed. I haven't used these much. Trying some things.

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EricF
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Re: Robotic shields

#6 Post by EricF » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:21 am

Another one of RI:S advantages. I think they are undervalued by most players.
They are a little expensive early game, but are very economical late game.
Even on Titans, because you aren't really going to have those Titans all by
themselves anyway are you? You are going to add them to a fleet that already exists.
If playing a Robotic species a good reason not to scrap all your early Robo Cruisers.

defaultuser
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Re: Robotic shields

#7 Post by defaultuser » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:05 am

The problem with them is that late game as you invade and area and smashed the fleets, then you need to take a lot of worlds that have high defenses and shields. It's nice to be able to dispatch fleets that are strong enough to a few systems at a time. With the robotic shields though, you lose much of their shield strength when you do that. So it's a trade off.

In this case, I have a large fleet blockading an area with Experimentor spawn. So no problem.

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EricF
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Re: Robotic shields

#8 Post by EricF » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:17 am

But it only takes about 30 ships to equal Black Shields.
Late game that should not be a problem.
Your whole fleet doesn't need to be Titans. Mix in SG's or even Robo's.
Much cheaper to build. They draw fire and are easy to replace.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Robotic shields

#9 Post by Ophiuchus » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:26 am

defaultuser wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:05 am
With the robotic shields though, you lose much of their shield strength when you do that. So it's a trade off.
You could add interceptors to draw fire.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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EricF
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Re: Robotic shields

#10 Post by EricF » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:56 am

The one big problem with Robo's is that they are slow.
One Internal slot means no additional engine.
However they are cheap and have fewer requirements
than SG's so they can be potentially built much closer to the front.
Since they are being used as cannon fodder even being piloted
by Exobots is exceptable.

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Oberlus
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Re: Robotic shields

#11 Post by Oberlus » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:24 am

I used RI:S over black-shields for most situations until fighters came into FO.
Now, it is better to have an additional fighter hangar in your Titanic Hull (and no shield whatsoever) than having that 15 or 20 shield. Because most of the enemy death rays are hitting my fighters (some more than once), and my Titatnic Hull ships with plenty of cheap armour can endurance that first round of enemy death rays without loosing a single ship, and they will be fully repaired in one or maybe two turns after combat.

I don't have formulas to support this statement, but results from my games. When I want a challenge, I forbid myself from using fighters. When I want to roll over the galaxy quickly, I go full fighters from start totally ignoring shield techs (cakewalk).
Pleasepleaseplease, join fifth multiplayer slow game!

ovarwa
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Re: Robotic shields

#12 Post by ovarwa » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:46 pm

Hmm.

I will have to give fighters yet another look. Especially for low-research species.

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EricF
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Re: Robotic shields

#13 Post by EricF » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:27 am

Oberlus wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:24 am
I used RI:S over black-shields for most situations until fighters came into FO.
Now, it is better to have an additional fighter hangar in your Titanic Hull (and no shield whatsoever) than having that 15 or 20 shield. Because most of the enemy death rays are hitting my fighters (some more than once), and my Titatnic Hull ships with plenty of cheap armour can endurance that first round of enemy death rays without loosing a single ship, and they will be fully repaired in one or maybe two turns after combat.

I don't have formulas to support this statement, but results from my games. When I want a challenge, I forbid myself from using fighters. When I want to roll over the galaxy quickly, I go full fighters from start totally ignoring shield techs (cakewalk).
Never used Fighters before, but after this I started trying them. Man, you are right.
A Fleet with Fighters against a Fleet with none is a slaughter. Before I didn't seem
to encounter the AI using them very often and when they did it was only lightly.
Seems though that if you use them the AI is much more likely to use them as well.
Don't know if that was intended or just coincidence. Fighters seem OP at this point.
Need FlAK to only target Fighters AND have a chance to kill them BEFORE they fire.
The way it works now I never even bother using FlAK.

Jaumito
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Re: Robotic shields

#14 Post by Jaumito » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:40 am

EricF wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:27 am
The way it works now I never even bother using FlAK.
Try playing against human players for a change. If you still don't use flak then, either you're a tactical genius or you're dead.

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Oberlus
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Re: Robotic shields

#15 Post by Oberlus » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:48 pm

Jaumito wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:40 am
Try playing against human players for a change. If you still don't use flak then, either you're a tactical genius or you're dead.
Hmmm... That intrigues me. I've never played against other human players.
If I change in my Titanic Carrier (3 hangars, 4 launch bays, 4 death rays, 8 armour) an armour slot for a flak, the ship is a bit more expensive and I get some extra enemy fighters down after they shoot on round 2, that should imply some less damage taken (on round 3). But also I'm a bit less protected against the enemy short range weapons. So I can endurance one less DR hit but avoid around two fighter hits (so I'd say the ship should have similar survivability). However, assuming sheer numbers of enemy fighters (battle against full carriers, with 8-12 fighters per ship), the flaks may be hitting 3 fighters and be better than the extra armour.
Now considering to sacrifice a death ray for a flak. One less DR is -25% anti-planet strength ('cause fighters don't shoot planets) and some extra anti-fighter strength (my ships already have 9 interceptors, 8 out on round 1, so that flak increases the possible hits to fighters from 8 to 11 on round 2). I guess that would be advisable against full-fighter fleets.
A launch bay less for a flak would be bad in any case (less anti-ship strength but similar anti-fighter strength.

As long as the AI doesn't ever take the full-fighter path, no flaks is good. So... I need to get time for multiplayer games!
Pleasepleaseplease, join fifth multiplayer slow game!

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