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Eccentric orbit

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:39 am
by Scara
Hi,

it seems the eccentric orbit malus to supply is missing in 04-26.e5a0756.
I outposted a tiny planet (+2) with eccetric orbit (-2) and thought i needed orbital construction to get 1 point, but already without it I got 2 supply points.
Sun hulls now have only 4 interior slots, is that a change on purpose?
Greetings =)

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:34 am
by Dilvish
please show us a screenshot showing both the eccentric orbit special and the tooltip for the supply meter.
Sun hulls now have only 4 interior slots, is that a change on purpose?
Yes; at least, it's my recollection there was a change along those lines.

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:30 am
by MatGB
I'm on my Win laptop with a clean install of the same and the supply malus is in the script and it should be working.

Bear in mind a Tiny world gives you +2 supply and a species gives +1 or +2 normally: if you're playing Etty or George you'd still get 2 supply. But yeah, screenshot showing the tooltip as it's a weird bug if it's not working.

Re the Solar Hull, it was decided that it was way overpowered so as a temporary fix we removed a chunk of the slots: it's still the most powerful hull in the game though. I think the main problem is the engine parts so going to fix them and see if that solves the problem. We need more internal slot parts but having ships with speed 300+ is a little over the top, unless you've also got them pinning them down is almost impossible.

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:32 am
by Oberlus
MatGB wrote:We need more internal slot parts
I certainly miss some powerful carrier designs. I'd love to get a 5 int. slot hull to put in 4x fighter hangar + 1 stealth (and 6 launchbays, so at least 6 ext. slots).

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:58 am
by MatGB
Yeah, I want to do some work on some of the hulls so a carrier is more viable but, well, it probably requries rethinking how that part of the tech tree works.

Nerfing the Solar was a concern in terms of introducing Fighters but it was non-Fighter designs that were the biggest problem, especially in multi-player vs multiple humans, the first to get them had such massive advantage it needed fixing.

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:21 am
by Oberlus
Your idea of making engines (speed) ship parts non stackable seems to me the best way to tackle that. Currently there are +10 and +20 for int. slots and +30 and +40 (+40 stealth) for core slots. I'd add a new +30 ship part for int. slots (and another tech for that), change the +30 core part to give +40, and add another new, very expensive core part to give +50 or +60 (and another tech for it).

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:33 am
by MatGB
My current plan is to simply double all the existing parts, I'd like to simplify ship speeds so they're always a multiple of 20 but that's a lower priority. If they're all doubled then the max speed is 200, and I'm fine with that. 20, 40, 60, 80 are nice simple stat bonuses.

But everything is subject to testing.

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:25 am
by Oberlus
Yeah, I like your way.

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:28 pm
by Scara
Hi,

sorry, long time not in. Here is a screenshot I made of the situation. Planet was outposted, no species bonus, only +2 tiny planet. I don't think I have a savegame...
ecce.jpg
ecce.jpg (38.47 KiB) Viewed 1300 times

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:36 pm
by Morlic
The special is scripted to only affect populated planets:

Code: Select all

    effectsgroups =
        EffectsGroup
            scope = Source
            activation = NOT Population high = 0
            priority = [[LATE_PRIORITY]]
            effects = [
                SetTargetResearch value = Value + 3
                SetMaxSupply value = Value -2
            ]

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:49 pm
by Dilvish
Morlic wrote:The special is scripted to only affect populated planets:
Excellent catch, Morlic! If we don't wind up changing this aspect then I think we should be sure to fix the Pedia description so that rather than just saying it decreases Supply, that it decreases Supply if the planet is populated.

And also in that case, then we should adjust AI handling of this in ColonisationAI.evaluate_planet() so that this particular supply mod only applies to colonisation missions and not to outposting missions. It looks to me like we don't necessarily need an adjustment to the supply_val calculation, but I think its been a while since we've done anything with that and it might be worthwhile reviewing/tweaking that sometime. I'll bookmark this to my todo list to hopefully get around to it sometime, assuming we don't decide to change the special.

As for changing the special or not -- the current setup does seem to me to have the major drawback that if you have already outposted the planet and get a suitability report on it, it's my recollection that the suitability report is not going to reflect changes in supply-connected-growth-specials that would result from the planet being colonized, so folks could easily be caught by an unexpected die-off after colonization. Perhaps we should consider having the penalty be only -1 rather than -2 so that most species could not have any risk of that die-off.

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:11 pm
by Scara
Hmm, I guessed it might be that, but thought rather then changing the description, changing the special to work on outposted planets aswell.
I would be logical, because the eccentric orbit should change the supply, whether or not its colonized, what the scientists make of it is a other thing...

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:40 pm
by Vezzra
Scara wrote:Hmm, I guessed it might be that, but thought rather then changing the description, changing the special to work on outposted planets aswell.
I would be logical, because the eccentric orbit should change the supply, whether or not its colonized, what the scientists make of it is a other thing...
This.

I consider the special only working for populated planets a bug, so the fix should be to remove that restriction. Unless there was a specific reason why that restriction had been added...?

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:17 pm
by dbenage-cx
Changed in PR #1090.
Guessing that change was only concerned with the effect on research?

Re: Eccentric orbit

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:26 pm
by Vezzra
dbenage-cx wrote:Changed in PR #1090.
Guessing that change was only concerned with the effect on research?
Most likely. That would make sense at least. So the research bonus and the supply malus need to be separated into two effectsgroups I guess.