trans to spanish

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shivu

Re: trans to spanish

#16 Post by shivu » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:47 pm

Cjkjvfnby wrote:I have reason to delete them. English text updated sometimes. If you already translate it to you language, you need to update it.
If you have old english text in you file, you will translate it not same as in en.txt
I am not as stupid to translate old strings. I check if they are still up to date before I translate.
Strings also change after I translate them.

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Dilvish
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Re: trans to spanish

#17 Post by Dilvish » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:49 pm

I've committed the reduced version of the patch that Cjkjvfnby had posted because it is more in the condition of what we want the stringtables to actually be, and Shivu I don't think it should actually cause you much trouble, if any, to continue working with the version of the stringtable you're working on. I noticed the patch did still have a couple cases where the entry was a mix of Spanish and English, but since the English portion seemed significantly substantive and I wasn't up for taking the time to work through a translation myself, I left it there, trying to decide on the lesser of two (minor) evils.
shivu wrote:I am not as stupid to translate old strings. I check if they are still up to date before I translate.
Strings also change after I translate them.
Yes, but think about all the people playing the game in the meantime. The strings that haven't been translated will be automatically kept up to date so long as they don't get copied directly into the Spanish stringtable. Once those untranslated entries have been copied into the repository Spanish stringtable then that automatic synchronization with the English stringtable stops. The fact that translated entries don't get automatically updated is a necessary cost of having the translation available, but blocking the automatic synchronization of untranslated entries is an unnecessary cost.
Cjkjvfnby wrote:I have script that allow you to make full file for translation and shrink it to translated only before making patch.
Shivu, I think that Cjkjvfnby's scripts could probably work very well with your process and actually help your work. I think they are fairly easy to use. Cjkjvfnby, I think you may have linked to them before, but could you go ahead and actually attach them here for Shivu's convenience? (You will need to put them in a zip file.) Also, please repeat your explanation on how to use them, perhaps augmenting some to help clarify things for someone who may not have used python scripts before. If you could also clarify how it would specifically fit with what Shivu has described of his process, that would be helpful as well.
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0

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Cjkjvfnby
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Re: trans to spanish

#18 Post by Cjkjvfnby » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:53 pm

shivu wrote:I am not as stupid to translate old strings. I check if they are still up to date before I translate.
I write my scripts to make life of translators more simple. Then all untranslated string will be removed, you will not need to check that they are up to date. You will just need to make full file and work with it.

Please join this thread viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9275
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Re: trans to spanish

#19 Post by shivu » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:16 pm

Dilvish wrote: I noticed the patch did still have a couple cases where the entry was a mix of Spanish and English, but since the English portion seemed significantly substantive and I wasn't up for taking the time to work through a translation myself, I left it there, trying to decide on the lesser of two (minor) evils.
This is due to the fact that these entries received additional sentence. I must say that sometimes I have the feeling I’m more “running” behind modification in the en.txt then translating. How could I (alone) win against so many prolific programmers? :lol:
Dilvish wrote:The strings that haven't been translated will be automatically kept up to date so long as they don't get copied directly into the Spanish stringtable. Once those untranslated entries have been copied into the repository Spanish stringtable then that automatic synchronization with the English stringtable stops. The fact that translated entries don't get automatically updated is a necessary cost of having the translation available, but blocking the automatic synchronization of untranslated entries is an unnecessary cost.
Where this mechanism happens? (part of programm)
Dilvish wrote:Shivu, I think that Cjkjvfnby's scripts could probably work very well with your process and actually help your work. I think they are fairly easy to use. Cjkjvfnby, I think you may have linked to them before, but could you go ahead and actually attach them here for Shivu's convenience? (You will need to put them in a zip file.) Also, please repeat your explanation on how to use them, perhaps augmenting some to help clarify things for someone who may not have used python scripts before. If you could also clarify how it would specifically fit with what Shivu has described of his process, that would be helpful as well.
Sorry to say it this way.
1. I already make some bad experience with “helping script” in the past. I don’t wish to start a new experience.
2. I am perfectly able to make script if I need one (I already do same).
3. I find the Cjkjvfnby to complicate, it’s not easier it’s more complicate.
4. My present working way is a bit more complicate as what you can imagine.
It’s more than just [English Word/phrase] --> [foreign language Word/phrase]

It is not right place here (Spanish not French) but I sincerely regret what I do with Ouaz. Next time when I realize someone is on the wrong way I will no more intervene as I do it.

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Vezzra
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Re: trans to spanish

#20 Post by Vezzra » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:33 pm

shivu wrote:Where this mechanism happens? (part of programm)
It happens when a stringtable key is substituted with the corresponding entry from the stringtable. First, the program looks up the key in the stringtable for the choosen language. If it doesn't find a corresponding entry there (and the choosen language isn't already English), it falls back on the English stringtable and tries to look up the key there. This way, if a stringtable for a language other than English isn't up to date, instead of producing errors for the all the entries that haven't been translated yet, it will fall back on the English strings.

This also makes sure that for missing entries up to date English strings are used. That purpose of course is defeated once you copy untranslated English strings to the other stringtables. While it makes sense for the translator to work on a stringtable that has the English entries copied into it, it should not be committed in that form. For commit, untranslated English entries should be stripped out (which is what Cjkjvfnby script does, if I understand correctly).

shivu

Re: trans to spanish

#21 Post by shivu » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:42 pm

I mean the name of the program part or header or whatever it is. Something like name.nsi; name.cpp; name.h.

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Dilvish
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Re: trans to spanish

#22 Post by Dilvish » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:04 pm

shivu wrote:I mean the name of the program part or header or whatever it is. Something like name.nsi; name.cpp; name.h.
it's in "util/i18n.cpp" and the particular function is

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const std::string& UserString(const std::string& str) {
    const StringTable_& string_table = GetStringTable();
    if (string_table.StringExists(str))
        return GetStringTable().String(str);
    else
        return GetDefaultStringTable().String(str);
}
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Re: trans to spanish

#23 Post by shivu » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:08 pm

tks a lot :D

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Cjkjvfnby
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Re: trans to spanish

#24 Post by Cjkjvfnby » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:58 pm

shivu wrote:
Dilvish wrote: I noticed the patch did still have a couple cases where the entry was a mix of Spanish and English, but since the English portion seemed significantly substantive and I wasn't up for taking the time to work through a translation myself, I left it there, trying to decide on the lesser of two (minor) evils.
This is due to the fact that these entries received additional sentence. I must say that sometimes I have the feeling I’m more “running” behind modification in the en.txt then translating. How could I (alone) win against so many prolific programmers? :lol:
Join updating en.txt it still has many weak places. I am thinking about making some changelog info for translators, have you any idea how you want to see it?
Sorry to say it this way.
1. I already make some bad experience with “helping script” in the past. I don’t wish to start a new experience.
You can not use scripts. Just don't add english texts to patches.
2. I am perfectly able to make script if I need one (I already do same).
Do you have experience with python and git?

3. I find the Cjkjvfnby to complicate, it’s not easier it’s more complicate.
Then what? Can you describe you way?
4. My present working way is a bit more complicate as what you can imagine.
It’s more than just [English Word/phrase] --> [foreign language Word/phrase]
Details?
It is not right place here (Spanish not French) but I sincerely regret what I do with Ouaz. Next time when I realize someone is on the wrong way I will no more intervene as I do it.
I expect moderators will cut this part to separate thread. At least you have other person for you language translation and I am alone. This translation system is not good for my language (all systems that I have used is not good) Translation require some compromises between normal language and fit game frame.
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0

shivu

Re: trans to spanish

#25 Post by shivu » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:34 am

@Cjkjvfnby: I do not wish any further discussion about this subject. From now I will no more answer your questions.

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Oberlus
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Re: trans to spanish

#26 Post by Oberlus » Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:43 pm

I'm planning to update the long forgotten Spanish string table. In many cases it is so wrong right now (the already translated entries) that I dislike playing in Spanish and I always use the English version.

I've many doubts:

1) When an English entry and the Spanish translation are the same, should I not include them in the Spanish string table? E.g.:

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UNKNOWN_VALUE_SYMBOL_2
???

ERROR
ERROR

2)

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ALL_OF
All Of:

ANY_OF
Any Of:
I'm not sure about English, but in correct Spanish it is wrong to use ":" when not at the end of a sentence.
For example, it would be correct to say "Cualquier de los siguientes:" (Any of the following:), but it is incorrect "Cualquiera de:".
What should I do? Write "correctly" and remove the colon or leave it for whatever reason?


3) Some entries have the first letter of every word capitalized (e.g. "Deep Space"). In correct Spanish only proper nouns can have capitalized first letters (so it should be "Espacio profundo" at the start of a sentence and "espacio profundo" in any other case). Should I keep the capitalized letters for some reason?

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adrian_broher
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Re: trans to spanish

#27 Post by adrian_broher » Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:21 pm

I'm not sure about English, but in correct Spanish it is wrong to use ":" when not at the end of a sentence.
Is this also true for listings? Because those entries are titles for lists of conditions.
Write "correctly" and remove the colon or leave it for whatever reason?
I would try to write proper grammar, however keep in mind that the strings might be composed to bigger constructs and that there may be size limitations due to the layout. So there is no general answer.
When an English entry and the Spanish translation are the same, should I not include them in the Spanish string table?
Its best to let st-tool handle that. It prepares the string table for the workflow Ouaz wrote down some time ago.

I assume you are working on top of the git repository for better maintainability and traceable incremental changes.

First you run st-tool.py to synchronize the spanish string table with the english one form root of the repository:

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./check/st-tool.py sync default/stringtables/en.txt default/stringtables/es.txt > default/stringtables/es.new.txt
mv default/stringtables/es.new.txt default/stringtables/es.txt
This will make sure that the entries match by line location and add missing keys commented out with

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#*
.

After that you can use the workflow described by Ouaz:

viewtopic.php?p=77199#p77199

You can also use the

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st-tool.py compare default/stringtables/en.txt default/stringtables/es.txt
in between to get a summary of your progress and a listing of all problematic translation entries.
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Attached patches are released under GPL 2.0 or later.
Git author: Marcel Metz

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Oberlus
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Re: trans to spanish

#28 Post by Oberlus » Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:59 pm

adrian_broher wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:21 pm
Is this also true for listings? Because those entries are titles for lists of conditions.
Yes. Correct examples (assuming Spanish grammar):
This is a list of items preceded by a full sentence: this, that and the other.
Any of
  • this,
  • that or
  • the other.
The equation can be formulated as
X = Y + C
where X is new value, Y is previous value and C is a constant.
Incorrect examples:
This incomplete sentence tells you to pick any of:
  • this
  • that
  • the other
The equation can be formulated as:
X = Y + C
Where X is new value, Y is previous value and C is a constant.

adrian_broher wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:21 pm
Its best to let st-tool handle that. [...]
Thank you very much, I'll follow your indications (I had used only "compare" before posting here, the sync command is really great).

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Oberlus
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Re: trans to spanish

#29 Post by Oberlus » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:23 am

I've spotted what I think are inconsistencies in the predefined ship designs English descriptions. E.g.:

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SD_SMALL_MARK1_DESC       #Corvette M
Small and cheap mass-driver ship. [[BLD_SHIPYARD_BASE_REQUIRED]]

SD_MARK1_DESC             #Frigate Ms
Basic mass-driver frigate. [[BLD_SHIPYARD_BASE_REQUIRED]]

SD_LARGE_MARK1_DESC       #Cruiser Ms
Cruiser equipped for long range independent action with improved weapons and armor. [[BLD_SHIPYARD_BASE_REQUIRED]]

SD_LARGE_MARK2_DESC       #Cruiser Lz
Cruiser equipped for long range independent action. [[BLD_SHIPYARD_BASE_REQUIRED]]

SD_LARGE_MARK3_DESC       #Destroyer Ms
Destroyer equipped for fleet actions. [[BLD_SHIPYARD_BASE_REQUIRED]]

SD_LARGE_MARK4_DESC       #Destroyer Lz
Destroyer equipped for fleet actions with improved lasers and armor. [[BLD_SHIPYARD_BASE_REQUIRED]]
"long range independent action"
Sounds nice but it is misleading bullshit:
Cruisers here have 2 fuel, destroyers have 1.5. None is good for "long range".
Destroyers' characteristic is they have shields, which isn't mentioned anywhere.
Frigates have 4 fuel. If equipped with shields instead of fuel tanks they would have 3 fuel. Still not very long range, but certainly longer than Cruisers/Destroyers.
The only really long range ships here are the Corvettes (8 fuel).

The "fleet action" thingy, I just don't get it. None of those ships are really dependent on any other ship design to do their job. Maybe Corvettes are the ship designs that are more dependent on going in fleet formation (since they are so weak).

"improved lasers"
No, just lasers. Improved weaponry, yes.

I would change all those descriptions for others more tightly related to their real capabilities/characteristics: type (level) of weaponry, armor and shields.
I would say this deserves an issue in github? But not a pressing matter, indeed.


While I am at the Spanish translation, which is quite off the track (some 3000 entries untranslated, the other 1000ish way outdated and in some cases plain wrong), I think I will skip those translations and focus on more important ones, because it is so much work I'm sure I will lose inertia way before I finish it, and I want to be able to at least make an incomplete PR to advance the work a bit.

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Re: trans to spanish

#30 Post by adrian_broher » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:31 am

Oberlus wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:23 am
I would change all those descriptions for others more tightly related to their real capabilities/characteristics: type (level) of weaponry, armor and shields.
I would say this deserves an issue in github? But not a pressing matter, indeed.
I suggest you create an issue anyway, note the problematic keys and ignore those dubious entries for your translations for now.
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Attached patches are released under GPL 2.0 or later.
Git author: Marcel Metz

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