Ideas (b6275)

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yandonman
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Ideas (b6275)

#1 Post by yandonman » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:45 pm

Here are some of my thoughts on changes that should be made (these are going onto my todo list). If you see anything you don't like, let me know.

Balancing thoughts:
  • Organic Ships - 300 RP (Organic ships are still super OP, and early game ships almost get no love)
UI:
  • 'Pedia respects esc button
  • Upgrade button in Ship Design window: Replaces weapons, armor, shields, engines, fuel on a ship design with most advanced part. Does not fill in empty slots.
  • Right click on notification and select "Don't show notification"/"Hide". (possibly X icon to right of notification as well)
  • New 'Pedia entry: List of planet types with best species (in your empire) recommendation - this is a simple check for environmental preference
  • Quick/AutoSort options in Production Queue: Cheapest First / Costliest First / Buildings First / Ships First (probably toggle-able buttons)
Problem/Rationale: Planet invade hopping steam rolls too much:
Suggested solution: Make planets Very Unhappy after invasion
Very Unhappy has these effects:
  • -50% malus on PP/RP,
  • will not produce ships.
  • 5 turns under empire control will bump happiness up one level
To encourage conflict, by encouraging recapturing, give a window of opportunity where recapturing does not cause malus.
  • if very unhappy while invaded, become happy
  • if unhappy while invade, become neutral



Problem/Rationale: Homeworlds tend to have all buildings, and colonies have very few (save for ship yards).
Don't allow some buildings to be built on the same planet so that the more planets become strategically valuable targets.
  • Industrial Center may not be built at a shipyard
  • Solar Orbital Generator may not be built at a shipyard
  • Scanning Facility may not be built at a shipyard
Problem/Rationale: Gas Giant Generator too micro intensive for mid/late game (multipe people have reported this). Solar Orbital Generators seems a bit too "easy" for is effect.

Suggested Changes:
Gas Giant Generator:
  • Build 1 = system specific effect (this is it's current behavior)
  • Build 5 = apply to supply connected empire
Solar Orbital Generator:
  • Build 1 = system specific effect
  • Build 3 = apply to supply connected empire (this is it's current behavior)
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Bigjoe5
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Re: Ideas (b6275)

#2 Post by Bigjoe5 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:06 pm

yandonman wrote:Problem/Rationale: Homeworlds tend to have all buildings, and colonies have very few (save for ship yards).
IIRC, some buildings already have an effect that reduces planet infrastructure - the plan was to limit buildings based on infrastructure, but there were never any conditions added that actually prevented buildings from being built when the infrastructure meter was too low. Adding such a condition might be a good first stab at solving this problem.
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MatGB
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Re: Ideas (b6275)

#3 Post by MatGB » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:21 pm

Aye, I'm getting my head around the code to do something with Scanning Facility as it's fairly easy compared to some things, and the plan is to base its affect on infrastructure, so a planet with a shipyard and drydock would be a bad place for a SF anyway (although I hope to set it to be empire wide, the idea of X built becoming global is a good one though).

Definitely like the idea of happiness affects, it's daft that taking one place in a system lets you build all the troop ships you need on site to take the rest of the system.
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MatGB
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Re: Ideas (b6275)

#4 Post by MatGB » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:38 am

yandonman wrote:
Problem/Rationale: Gas Giant Generator too micro intensive for mid/late game (multipe people have reported this). Solar Orbital Generators seems a bit too "easy" for is effect.

Suggested Changes:
Gas Giant Generator:
  • Build 1 = system specific effect (this is it's current behavior)
  • Build 5 = apply to supply connected empire
Solar Orbital Generator:
  • Build 1 = system specific effect
  • Build 3 = apply to supply connected empire (this is it's current behavior)
The more I think about this idea, the more I like it, especially if all 5/3 need to be within the same supply, it'd make breaking supply even more disruptive as a strategy and make grabbing opposing facilities a useful strategy.
Mat Bowles

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Re: Ideas (b6275)

#5 Post by yandonman » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:51 am

Bigjoe5 wrote:IIRC, some buildings already have an effect that reduces planet infrastructure - the plan was to limit buildings based on infrastructure, but there were never any conditions added that actually prevented buildings from being built when the infrastructure meter was too low. Adding such a condition might be a good first stab at solving this problem.
Ref:
In playtesting this patch, in the construction queue, the infrastructure cost needs to be displayed, just like the PP and time. Probably needs a special (red/greyed out) indicator on the infrastructure when the infrastructure cost is not met.


eta: current patch does not consume infrastructure immediately, which leads to some weirdness.
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eleazar
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Re: Ideas (b6275)

#6 Post by eleazar » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:21 am

yandonman wrote:Problem/Rationale: Planet invade hopping steam rolls too much:
Suggested solution: Make planets Very Unhappy after invasion
Very Unhappy has these effects:
  • -50% malus on PP/RP,
  • will not produce ships.
  • 5 turns under empire control will bump happiness up one level
To encourage conflict, by encouraging recapturing, give a window of opportunity where recapturing does not cause malus.
  • if very unhappy while invaded, become happy
  • if unhappy while invade, become neutral
We have the happiness meter in the GUI. Your first point seems like a reasonable first step in implementing some of this.

The second part, i'm not so sure. Due to oddities if there are three players involved in invasion, you can end up with the planet being unhappy with being retaken by the original owners.

yandonman wrote:Scanning Facility may not be built at a shipyard
This sounds like a good fit with the scanning facility concept-- you would want a listening post far from noisy traffic.
yandonman wrote:Problem/Rationale: Gas Giant Generator too micro intensive for mid/late game (multipe people have reported this). Solar Orbital Generators seems a bit too "easy" for is effect.

Suggested Changes:
Gas Giant Generator:
  • Build 1 = system specific effect (this is it's current behavior)
  • Build 5 = apply to supply connected empire
Solar Orbital Generator:
  • Build 1 = system specific effect
  • Build 3 = apply to supply connected empire (this is it's current behavior)
Strongly agree with the complaint about the GGG, though i'm concerned how this "build 5/3" thing would be implemented. How will the game communicate with the player whats going on? How does this scale with small galaxies.

And in the case of the Solar Gen, the best bonuses are from rarer stars, what about if the player has 3 of different types?

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Re: Ideas (b6275)

#7 Post by Dilvish » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:52 pm

eleazar wrote:The second part, i'm not so sure. Due to oddities if there are three players involved in invasion, you can end up with the planet being unhappy with being retaken by the original owners.
Is that really a problem? It's not unheard of, I think, that a third party 'liberator' might be initially welcomed even if they later turned out to be not so hot. Even if not exactly matching reality, that's not a bar for us, and it actually seems like an appealing dynamic to me to encourage multiple empires to be fighting over the same planets (though I don't relish the thought of trying to have the AI do much involved planning for that).
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Re: Ideas (b6275)

#8 Post by yandonman » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:00 pm

The second part, i'm not so sure. Due to oddities if there are three players involved in invasion, you can end up with the planet being unhappy with being retaken by the original owners.
Fair point. Perhaps an affinity (happiness) towards each empire? That way, multiple invasions by different empires in short order would not cause a problem. The world would be happy towards Empire A (original empire), very unhappy towards Empire B (first invader) and very unhappy towards Empire C (2nd invader). Therefore, if Empire A retakes the planet, the population is happy. But if Empire B does it, they are still unhappy.


And in the case of the Solar Gen, the best bonuses are from rarer stars, what about if the player has 3 of different types?
I envision the "build 3/5" effect for Solar Gen to be equivalent to having a Solar Gen at every star, which should give the best possible outcome. (I'll note that I still need to do some research on the current Solar Gen implementation, my reading of it's effects is different that others')
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eleazar
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Re: Ideas (b6275)

#9 Post by eleazar » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:13 pm

Dilvish wrote:
eleazar wrote:The second part, i'm not so sure. Due to oddities if there are three players involved in invasion, you can end up with the planet being unhappy with being retaken by the original owners.
Is that really a problem? It's not unheard of, I think, that a third party 'liberator' might be initially welcomed even if they later turned out to be not so hot. Even if not exactly matching reality, that's not a bar for us, and it actually seems like an appealing dynamic to me to encourage multiple empires to be fighting over the same planets (though I don't relish the thought of trying to have the AI do much involved planning for that).
That's not what i'm talking about.

The point seems to be to simulate citizens going:
"Hey, you took us from our old Empire!" Throw Tantrum.
Then if the old empire takes them back, "Yea! we are happy and efficient again!"

But this simple method does not take into account who the conquers are-- just that the citizens alternatively like and dislike their conquerers (for a limited time).

But if Planet Foo belongs to empire A, and then B takes it over, and then C takes it, they will be happy, and if A takes it back they will be unhappy again. I don't see how the player is going to understand what's going or how the interface is going to present this.

It's just confusing and counter-intuitive, and the sort of thing that needs the Approval meters (formerly called Allegiance) to implement in a transparent, and intuitive way.
It is a topic discussed very thoroughly, possibly before your time.

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Re: Ideas (b6275)

#10 Post by Bigjoe5 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:54 am

eleazar wrote:It is a topic discussed very thoroughly, possibly before your time.
:twisted: For reference. :twisted:
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