Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

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BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#91 Post by BlueAward »

o01eg wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:58 am
BlueAward wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:53 am
I guess it might only be working for multiplayer setup, rather than single player? But thanks to wobbly I've realized I can change defaults in default/scripting/game_rules.focs.py and that does the trick, except no setting there for extrasolar ship detection
No, persistent config works for all games.
OK apologies, must have done something wrong before, because I did not see it working, but I tried again and it worked this time. I probably put it in <server-locked> node but it has to be straight in the <rules> node

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#92 Post by wobbly »

BlueAward wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:53 am except no setting there for extrasolar ship detection
Seems to be in the actual code: Universe.cpp

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#93 Post by Oberlus »

Besides tech victory, we could have for extra-official victory condition: winner is the first empire that has no enemies alive.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#94 Post by o01eg »

Oberlus wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:15 pm Besides tech victory, we could have for extra-official victory condition: winner is the first empire that has no enemies alive.
We still can have victory and game stop when no empires with enemy left. Or it better to stop game when at least one empire take over its enemies?
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BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#95 Post by BlueAward »

So o01leg was thinking end game when there is peace in the Galaxy, while Oberlus suggests to end as victory for someone if they eliminate their enemies

Maybe it depends on how many wars do we want? 8 people have 7 relations each. I gather we want 2 allies, and some peace

Could be 2 allies, 1 peace, 4 wars. Could be 2 allies, 2 peace, 3 wars. Could be 2 allies, 3 peace, 2 wars. Could be 2 allies, 4 peace, 1 war.

What shall it be? 1 war probably too few, 4 wars maybe too many?

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#96 Post by Oberlus »

BlueAward wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:47 pm So o01leg was thinking end game when there is peace in the Galaxy, while Oberlus suggests to end as victory for someone if they eliminate their enemies
I meant in the sense of giving a winner price to someone, extra-officially, out-of-game. No need to stop playing at that point if we don't want.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#97 Post by BlueAward »

Oberlus wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:52 pm
BlueAward wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:47 pm So o01leg was thinking end game when there is peace in the Galaxy, while Oberlus suggests to end as victory for someone if they eliminate their enemies
I meant in the sense of giving a winner price to someone, extra-officially, out-of-game. No need to stop playing at that point if we don't want.
Need some justification why you actually went and killed someone totally? ;)

Waaait do we get prizes for winning?

It can always boil down how tired people will be at given point of time to continue playing or not.

Either way, works for me.

Either way, I'd like to know what scenario we are playing, mostly how many wars per empire we want to have, then I could present some suggested graph which there might be only one that is symmetrical and fits give requirement on wars

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#98 Post by BlueAward »

Okay maybe let me suggest the scenario below - everybody has two allies, three wars, two people at peace. Your allies war each other, which was a requirement put forth, and also means you war an ally of your allies, though it is the same one person in this scenario. Your other two wars, you have an ally for each of those that it is a common war to them.

For example as empire 1, you are allied with 3 and 7, but those are at war with each other. You are at war with 5, which is allied both to 3 and 7, so you also war ally of your allies, however it is the same empire (and you have no ally that shares that war). You are allied together with 3 against 6, and together with 7 against 4. And this is perfectly symmetrical for everybody

How does it sound? This is how it looks like:


Scenario_8_2_2_3.png
Scenario_8_2_2_3.png (23.04 KiB) Viewed 373 times

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#99 Post by Daybreak »

if 1, 8, and 7 gang up on 4
Then 4's allies 2 and 6 could only help by
2 attacking any of 7's ships, but cant attack 8 or 1's ships
6 attacking any of 1's ships, but cant attack 8 or 7's ships

So if any ally or both allies cant help, or dont like you :shock: :lol: or just maybe in wrong location or difficult to Traverse to help, then....

However, if your picture is a representation of the position/locations of each homeworld, then probably all ok, as it will take time to be able to traverse to these locations anyway, especially with fule constraints.

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#100 Post by BlueAward »

Some of this comes by design from the requirement that you need two allies at least, but they have to fight each other, and things need to be symmetrical for everybody. Hm, maybe 8 doesn't really want to fight 4 all that soon, because it weakens his allies 2 and 6 if their ally 4 is gone. Meanwhile yeah, 1 and 7 are allied against 4.. but they also have other wars on their minds, supposedly

But yeah some of it comes from the additional peace so while 1 and 7 are allied by design, 8 can freely join the fights because he's at peace with 1 and 7, while your allies have limited way to help you too

Think there are three ways to go about it
  • more wars, so people are potentially busier on other fronts rather than "ganking", though then even bigger ganking might be possible
  • more peace, so less ganking is possible by design, though people could complain it's less fun to have fewer wars possible?
  • prevent having common enemies in an alliance, which felt strange, but maybe that does disincentivises ganking a bit
Also, I have not been considering physical locations on map though the diagram layout may be a hint to that indeed

Maximum warrage variant, while still keeping a peace, could be below. This time around you are at war with an ally of each of your allies, and those are two separate empires. You have two pairs of people allied against you though those pairs have harder time to gank all 4 on you
Scenario_8_2_1_4.png
Scenario_8_2_1_4.png (22.81 KiB) Viewed 354 times
So if you're 1, then 3 and 4 are allied against you, and so are 6 and 7. Your ally 2 can help you against 4 and 7, but not against 3 (allied) or 6 (at peace). Your ally 8 can help you against 3 and 6, but not against 7 (allied) or against 4 (at peace). But also 3 and 6 are at war, and 4 and 7, which may go in the way of 4 against 1 ganking. Though generally the situation is charlie foxtrot and I think everybody has more to worry about than ganking 4 to 1 in particular? Does this look better? Though it makes the victory by elimintation of all your enemies harder, the more enemies you have

Having just one war, between your allies, is probably too little wars. How about only 2 wars, to focus your efforts more by design? Like scenario below, though downside is that your allies actually can't help you with your wars, because you're warring their allies... but in each of your two wars you have a person interested in that war and at peace with you, so you can still help each other, though not at the ally level
Scenario_8_2_3_2.png
Scenario_8_2_3_2.png (23.15 KiB) Viewed 354 times
Maybe I'm trying to make it too "supersymmetric", I think it may still be symmetrical if I draw 1-6, 2-5, 4-7, 3-8 in a different common color

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#101 Post by Daybreak »

Test Game starting?

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#102 Post by o01eg »

Daybreak wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:54 am Test Game starting?
Soon but even weekly test build not yet ready.
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#103 Post by BlueAward »

I wanna see some fireworks in mp21 gosh darn it even if I lose all the ships with my krakens late to the party! >:o never mind the "VICTORY" message xD

to see Ophiuchus forces fighting I guess I will need to run post game simulation out of a save game >.>

What scenario are we going to play in 22 then?

I wonder what sort of trolling will go on with this war between allies thing, never mind stuff like last minute gifting of your worlds to allied empire not at war with your incoming belligerent. Bonus double trolling if the world subsequently gets gifted to that belligerent xD

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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#104 Post by o01eg »

I've started test game with weekly test build 2022-11-01.6387e2e.

AI is enemy for all. Others use:
graph-2-4-1_aa0-2-0_an0-4-0_ae4-8-4_nn0-0-0_ne4-4-0_ee4-6-2.png
graph-2-4-1_aa0-2-0_an0-4-0_ae4-8-4_nn0-0-0_ne4-4-0_ee4-6-2.png (49.26 KiB) Viewed 298 times
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Re: Twenty-second game on the multiplayer slow game server

#105 Post by BlueAward »

o01eg wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:20 pm I've started test game with weekly test build 2022-11-01.6387e2e.

AI is enemy for all. Others use:
graph-2-4-1_aa0-2-0_an0-4-0_ae4-8-4_nn0-0-0_ne4-4-0_ee4-6-2.png
Ah OK, cheers. This is the "maximum warrage" version (while still keeping a peace) - 2 allies, 4 wars, 1 peace.

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